WP131 | The 3 Mistakes You Must Avoid to Protect Your Brand with Joey Vitale
In this eye-opening episode, trademark attorney Joey Vitale busts the biggest myths about brand protection—and reveals the costly mistake too many entrepreneurs make: skipping trademarks until it’s too late.
Joey breaks down the difference between your backstage business (your LLC) and your onstage identity (your brand)—and why without a trademark, someone else could legally force you to rebrand... even if you’ve been around for years.
From Google searches that offer false confidence to names that are legally “too generic” to own, Joey explains it all with clarity, humor, and real talk. Plus, he shares how to play both defense and offense with your brand—so you can build boldly and protect what’s yours.
If you’re building a brand you love, this episode is a must-listen.
Mistake: “I don’t need a trademark because I already have a [LLC, domain, Instagram handle, etc.]”
Joey hears this one all the time. And while it seems logical—after all, registering an LLC feels pretty official—it’s a major misconception.
Think of your LLC name as your backstage business name. It’s what you give the bank or the IRS. But trademarks? They’re about your onstage identity—how customers recognize and remember you.
“Until your brand is trademarked—your name, your logo, your slogan—you have zero rights to your brand,” Joey explains.
That means if someone else registers a similar name as a trademark before you do, they could legally force you to rebrand. Even if you’ve been using the name for years.
Trademarks aren’t about ownership in theory. They’re about real legal dibs and preventing confusion in the marketplace. And without one, your brand is vulnerable.
Mistake: “I’ll get a trademark eventually.”
We get it—legal stuff can feel like something to tackle later, when you’re more “established.” But with over 500,000 trademark applications filed every year in the U.S., waiting can be risky.
As Joey puts it: “Everyone and their grandma is starting a business.” And that means there’s a good chance someone else is eyeing a name similar to yours.
Before Joey’s team even files a trademark, they run a comprehensive search to assess availability. Because protecting your brand only works if your brand is legally up for grabs to begin with.
And the risk isn’t just losing out on your mark—it could mean getting hit with a cease and desist. Not exactly the relaxing email you want to get while on vacation.
Mistake: “I did a search and I’m in the clear.”
It’s great that you checked! But a quick Google or USPTO search doesn’t always tell the full story.
Trademark law hinges on the likelihood of confusion, which can be a gray area. Two names might not be identical, but could still be legally “confusing” depending on how and where they’re used.
That’s why Joey’s team uses a “weather forecast” metaphor to help clients understand risk:
Clear skies = very rare, you’re in the clear
Storm watch = yellow flags that could lead to an Office Action
Tornado warning = high risk, probably time to pivot
And unlike some law firms that avoid risk to maintain a high success rate, Joey’s approach is practical. His team gives clients the full picture so they can make informed decisions—even if that means moving forward with moderate risk.
Trademarking: Playing Defense and Offense
Most business owners don’t want to spend their time chasing down copycats. What they do want is peace of mind—knowing they can build their brand confidently without fear of legal surprises.
That’s the defense part of trademarking. But once your mark is registered, it’s important to also play offense by monitoring for potential infringements. If you don’t, you risk diluting your trademark rights over time.
Joey’s team offers monitoring plans so clients can stay protected without constantly checking trademark databases themselves.
One Last Thing: Be Careful with Generic Names
If you’re tempted to name your business “Therapy Coaching Academy” or “Business Growth Podcast,” Joey has a word of caution: super descriptive or generic names are nearly impossible to trademark.
Just ask LeBron James, who tried to trademark “Taco Tuesday”—and failed. Because the phrase is too widely used to be exclusively owned.
So while generic names might be great for SEO, they often leave you legally exposed and unable to stop others from using something similar.
In a Nutshell…
Here’s Joey Vitale’s advice, plain and simple:
A domain or LLC doesn’t give you trademark rights.
Waiting to file can cost you more than doing it early.
DIY searches aren’t enough—get expert eyes on your mark.
Trademarks can be confusing, but they don’t have to be overwhelming. With the right guidance, you can protect your brand, avoid costly mistakes, and sleep better at night knowing your business is built on solid legal ground.
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Joey Vitale’s Resources
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: Hi, I am Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith-based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Wanna grow your practice, wanna grow your faith, wanna enjoy your life outside of work, you've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith-based practice while also having a good time.
Now let's get started.
[00:00:29] Jingle: Where she grows your practice and she don't play. She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owen and Wise Practice
[00:00:44] Whitney Owens: Podcast. Hello friends, and thanks for hanging out with me on The Wise Practice Podcast. Today's episode is with a trademark attorney packed full of great content and simple language.
In fact, Joey from Indie Law is a company that I started working with recently, and when I hung out with Hill on the phone, I was like, oh my gosh, you're awesome. You've gotta come on the podcast. So was excited to be able to interview him and bring all that information here to you today. Plus. Listen to this.
After we got done with the episode, Joey very graciously offered to give all listeners who hear about him on The Wise Practice Podcast, $300 off your service with them. So if you reach out to Indie law and you do a consult call, you will get $300 off your service with them. If you sign up within a certain amount of time, you just need to mention that you heard about it on the Wise Practice Podcast.
So that's a great opportunity for you guys. Hey. I signed up and worked for them, so you should consider it too. So far, I am just in the beginning stages, I would say, of completing the application and getting it filed, and I've learned a lot and it's been easy for the way that they've been doing it. So it's been a great experience so far.
And other people recommended them to me because they had a good experience. So I'm all about the personal referral. So you're gonna get to know Joey today on the podcast. He's gonna give you tons of information about trademarks. It's a really excellent interview. I also just have been kind of thinking about, well, a lot of us have been thinking about where we are.
In the world, politics, economy, spirituality, there is so much going on right now, and it's definitely not only impacting us, but it's impacting our clients and impacting our businesses. I'm seeing some businesses that are doing great and I'm speci specifically talking about private practices and others that are filling a dip.
They're filling a wall and they're struggling. Just the other day, a practice center texted me and said. I typically have a full caseload, and my caseload's dropped to less than 50% of what I'm used to. Um, another practice owner said, you know, the calls have dropped in their practice and is that something that I was experiencing and, and what I was hearing?
And so I, I wanna speak to this idea of things not working like they used to. Our practices are gonna go through lots of phases, just like. You go through phases, your kids go through phases. Life is just full of change. Even driving the other night, I was thinking, I hate change. It's hard. Change is hard.
And so when our practice is not working the way it used to, maybe your revenue's dipped, the clients have dipped. Maybe your stress level's gone up even though you're doing the same things you were doing. I especially see this with group practice centers. As their practice grows, the policies and procedures they had aren't working anymore.
So many different things might not be working. We tend to think negative. We tend to get worried. We assume the worst. Or we question ourselves, was this what I was really called to? Why am I doing what I'm doing? Does God want me to keep moving forward? Is this the sign that I need to stop my practice or stop this business or stop this thing?
And I don't wanna ignore that because I do think that there are seasons for starting and stopping. But I want you to change that mindset, right, that when changes come, when things are different, when there's a shift, it doesn't necessarily mean something negative about you or that you've done something wrong.
Use it as an opportunity to explore what God might be doing. When things change around us, God is moving. He's always moving, always with us. So what is the new opportunity that God might be putting in your path? Where might he want you to explore something new in your business? Maybe it's a new way of doing things.
Maybe it's a new mission. Maybe it's a new location. Maybe it's actually another business that he wants you to create, has something else within you that's growing. Within all these things, God is moving within you and within your business. So instead of looking at those negative things, asking, how can I use this opportunity to grow closer to God and closer to his mission in the world, this is something that I particularly love about the work I get to do with practice owners.
It is, yes, I'm gonna help you with your business. Like we at Wise Practice are all about helping you with your practice. We're also all about finding God in the midst of it. That this is not just about business work, it is about God's work, God's work in us, and God's work in our practice. So if you're kinda listening to this, I encourage you to take a moment, pray, reflect, talk to your trusted friends.
Where might God be moving in, changing what you're doing in your business or wanting to change within you. If you're still having a hard time and you're wanting some guidance, you're wanting somebody to know that they're praying for you, but they're also directing you in your business, reach out to us at Wise Practice.
This is exactly what we do. It's like a spiritual guide for your private practice, but also helping you with the business components as well. You can head to our website, wise practice.com. You can fill out an application we get on a phone call with you or a Zoom call really, and talk to you about what's going on.
Even if you choose not to work with us, even though we hope that you do, we will help point you in the right direction because that's what it's about. That's what we're here for, to provide you that direction and that compassion and that understanding. Thank you for going down this journey with me. For each one of you that take the time to listen to the podcast, when you write the reviews, it means a lot to me, so please keep that up.
And I'll continue to deliver excellent content. Just like Joey here, he's gonna talk to us about the three, uh, mistakes that people make when protecting their brand. Thank you for listening. Here we go.
Today on the podcast I have my new friend, Joe Vital. He is a trademark lawyer and brand Legitimizer. He's filled over a thousand trademark applications in his firm. Indie Law has over 150 positive reviews on Google. Joey puts the rad and trademarks, and today he'll be breaking down the legal side into plain English for us.
Thanks for coming on the show,
[00:07:35] Joey Vitale: Whitney. Thank you so much for having me, man. You are just off to the races with this podcast. I saw all of the episodes and the reviews that you're getting, so it's a real honor to be here.
[00:07:47] Whitney Owens: Well, well, thank you so much. Well, I enjoy it. I love being able to like meet with people that I wouldn't have met necessarily or gotten to talk to as much and, and I love our story about how we met, but before we kind of go into that, why don't you share just a little.
About you so people can get to know the person, Joey, before we kind of talk about the meat of the episode.
[00:08:07] Joey Vitale: Sure, sure. So as, as we'll dive into, I am now a lawyer that focuses on trademarks, but when I was in law school, I had never would've imagined that I would be doing this, let alone having my own law firm.
The, the kind of short-ish version of the story is I went to law school, realized quickly that I was the oddball in the room, who didn't like to argue was not a good fit for courtroom mitigation work, and found some really great mentors that inspired me to help business owners proactively stay outta the courtroom in the first place.
And. I did the thing that I love about entrepreneurs and built up the confidence to go out on my own no matter how scary that was. And my first year in business with my law firm, we were kind of like a. Kitchen sink law firm for business owners. If you needed anything, we could do it for you. Everything from forming LLCs to looking at your content and copyrights to trademarks, which we now focus on, and we learned very quickly that out of all of the legal things that could go wrong with the small business.
Trademarks tend to be that first expensive legal issue that business owners have to deal with, and it usually catches you by surprise. We've had, unfortunately, a bunch of horror stories where it happens on someone's like family vacation where you just get blindsided by a cease and desist letter. You didn't even realize that you were excellent, deadly stepping on the toes of some other similar brand.
And so because we just kept hearing. Horror story. After horror story around that, we decided to pivot the law firm focus on just trademarks. And now my team and I have the, the honor and and blast of saying that we filed over a thousand trademark applications.
[00:10:08] Whitney Owens: That's so great. That's so great. Like I know that you could see my facial expression, but I'm like, ugh.
Like I feel the pit in my stomach of the thought of getting that letter on vacation. Like that is the worst.
[00:10:19] Joey Vitale: Oh, I, my heart goes out and I hope that this doesn't happen to anybody that's listening, but man, there's, there's nothing worse than taking all of that time and money and planning to spend and to be with your family and then get hit by an email that you didn't expect, and now you're locked in your hotel room trying to figure out what to do during the time that you were supposed to be enjoying.
Unplugged away from from the business.
[00:10:49] Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So to tell the story about how we met, I have a good friend, those of you that know me, know Uriah Guilford, who's someone that I think the world of and when I need or a service, I go to Uriah. I am like, who do you use? What's the best tech? Like he is the guy and he told me about the great experience he had working with y'all and how seamless it was and and wonderful.
And I was like, huh, I guess I'll try this out. And. And I had, obviously you know this, but I had tried out someone before that and was kind of struggling a little bit in the relationship with the attorney. What they wanted was confused and so I pulled outta that. Anyway, so then you and I ended up getting on a call, which evidently doesn't normally happen 'cause normally someone else would've been on the call with me.
So I say things happen for a reason and after kind of hearing you explain it all, I was like, oh, I gotta have this guy on my podcast. 'cause it was so helpful for me to be thinking about trademarking for my own business. So I'm actually in that process right now with indie law, getting that, getting that trademark for Waters Edge counseling, and it's again, been very easy.
[00:11:52] Joey Vitale: Love to hear that. And that's really something that our whole team is just really passionate about, of how can we serve clients as well as we possibly can get you legally taken care of. But at the end of the day, like we just wanna make this whole process as effortless for you as possible. 'cause we know you've got tons of other things that you're dealing with.
[00:12:10] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Well, the meat of the episode today is we're gonna talk about the three mistakes that you must avoid to protect your brand. So I am ready when you are.
[00:12:19] Joey Vitale: Awesome. So. Mistake number one, and this is the most common thing that I hear. And before I even say what this mistake is, I just wanna preface this.
I, I always try to say this before I dive into these mistakes, but Whitney, I think this is gonna be especially true with your audience. Like, y'all are smart. I, I know that. And what's weird about trademarks is so much of this goes against common sense. And I've had to unlearn a lot of things that I just logically assumed about trademarks when I first started.
The first mistake is thinking, I don't need a trademark because I already have a fill in the blank.
[00:13:07] Whitney Owens: Like an LLC? Yeah,
[00:13:08] Joey Vitale: exactly. People come to me, they're like, well, I've got this LLC, or I've already got the domain name. It seems like a, a trademark is kind of a nice to have, but do I really need it to do business?
The truth is that until your brand is trademarked, your name, your logo, a slogan, until you've claimed those trademarks, you have zero rights to your brand. And let me explain what I mean there, because a lot of people do do their due diligence of getting the domain name or. Getting an LLC, but let's tackle an LLC first.
When, when you form an LLC and you pick that name of the business, the name of your LLC is what I like to call like a backstage name for your business. That's that super official name that you use with your contracts that you give to the bank and hopefully to the government. But the name of your LLC doesn't give you any consumer facing rights to that name.
And so trademarks are all about building that ability to call legal dibs on that name. And trademarks are really about confusion in the marketplace. 'cause if. There was another coffee shop that popped up that was called Starbucks, and you were, you weren't sure if it was the Starbucks that you were used to buying from.
Well, that could lead to a lot of customer confusion. The real Starbucks would likely get very upset if there was someone that was a direct competitor confusing their customers, right?
[00:14:46] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:47] Joey Vitale: So, so that's the first thing. And. Whitney, let me just quickly pause there. Any follow up questions or comments around that one?
[00:14:56] Whitney Owens: You see me laughing. I'm laughing. 'cause today somebody called the practice and said they, they didn't ask anything. They just started talking about chairs. I. The ground on the phone was like, I'm sorry, ma'am. Like, she was like, isn't this water edge, the ch the place with the chairs on Facebook that I wanna buy?
And we were like, no, that's another place. So, but, but yeah. That's just a quick, funny example of exactly what you're talking about, that confusion of what Water's edge actually is.
[00:15:22] Joey Vitale: Yeah. Oh, that's really good. And, and that brings me, this isn't so much a mistake, but. But a fun wrinkle with trademarks is that it's totally possible for two brands in completely different sectors to have the same trademark.
[00:15:39] Whitney Owens: Okay. Can you explain that a little bit?
[00:15:40] Joey Vitale: Yeah. So again, it goes back to customer confusion and if they operate in such different industries that there's not really a chance that that. People would think that there's a common source, then you're probably fine. So there's like Dove body soap and Dove chocolate.
[00:16:02] Whitney Owens: Oh yeah, Uhhuh.
[00:16:03] Joey Vitale: There's Delta Airlines and Delta faucets.
[00:16:07] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:08] Joey Vitale: So it sounds like this could be another good example of, you know, a, a chair company, right?
[00:16:15] Whitney Owens: Yeah. It, it, I think it's a, I think it's a hand me down store if I am correct. I can think I can remember where Waters Edge is, but Yeah.
[00:16:23] Joey Vitale: Yeah. So very different than some type of like, consulting.
[00:16:27] Whitney Owens: That's right.
[00:16:28] Joey Vitale: So when, when we think about it in, in that way, again. Trademarks start to get kind of fun and and interesting, but then once people have a better sense of that mistake and how to avoid it of, okay, I can't just think because I have the domain name or the LLC that I've got these automatic rights.
The next mistake that people make is saying, okay, I see why trademarking is important, but I'll just do it later.
[00:16:59] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:01] Joey Vitale: We have a real problem here in the US that really impacts trademarks, which is that over half a million trademark applications are getting filed every single year. And it's not surprising to most business owners to see those stats.
'cause like everyone in their grandma is starting a business these days.
[00:17:24] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:25] Joey Vitale: I say that because. People sometimes think, oh, I'll build the business. I'll kind of save up. Then one day I'll apply for the trademark and I'll get it. Hopefully, there's a really good chance if you haven't filed for a trademark yet, that you might accidentally be infringing on someone else.
And so before we can talk about protecting your brand and your rights, we have to have a serious conversation of availability. And is the name that you've chosen accidentally stepping on the toes of another brand?
[00:18:01] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:02] Joey Vitale: And so Whitney, as, as you probably saw when you started working with us, the first thing that we do is run a very comprehensive search report to make sure that before we file, is there anything that we're seeing that would cause us to have major red flags and, and recommend that, that you pivot in a, in a different direction because there's already a brand out there that is so similar.
[00:18:29] Whitney Owens: Yes, I did have that experience. I know you work with a lot of people, so I don't know if you know exactly what my situation was, but I loved that when y'all did that, not only was there a report, which by the way, I'm gonna get so lost in all the, the lingo, right? I know there's a lot. You read a simple video and it was like three to five minutes.
Here are the different ways that you can get stopped or here's what we're looking at. And you describe it in, you're gonna say it so much better me, but you describe it in different levels of a storm. Yes. Which I am in Savannah, so hurricane is like, ah, you know, like hurricanes when I evacuate. So it was described in such a way that was really easy to understand what that analogy.
Mm-hmm. And by the way, I am a storm. But I'm moving forward.
[00:19:11] Joey Vitale: Good. Okay. And let me, let me break down what that means too. 'cause I would say most of our clients are in a somewhat of a storm. Yeah. So when, when we started doing more of these trademarks and we started talking with clients, we realized, again, a lot of clients were, if this was their first time, what they were expecting they would receive was just a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
Like either you're gonna get or you're not. And. Unfortunately, trademarks are not that black and white. Most trademark applications that get filed receive some type of a status update from the trademark office, either rejecting the application or asking for more information. And the biggest reason for a refusal is that it's too similar to another mark.
And so what we've come over the years to, to figure out how to do better is instead of just getting a, a thumbs up or a thumbs down, because black trademarks aren't, that black and white is creating a kind of like weather forecast of what we think is going to happen all the way from completely clear skies, which honestly is very rare unless you have a super unique name to like.
Partly cloudy. Mm-hmm. Which is also pretty rare to a, what we call a storm watch, all the way to a tornado warning. And so the difference between a storm watch and a tornado warning is a storm watch is where I would say the bulk of our clients are living. Where we are seeing some. Not red flags, but like yellow flags and we're like, Hey, the one or more of these yellow flags might get raised during the process, but we are hopeful that we can move forward.
And the tornado warning on the other hand is like, we are seeing certain issues where we would not recommend moving forward. And I, I wanna give you guys some like inside baseball on, on. Why we do this? 'cause other law firms do this differently. Mm-hmm. When you talk with some law firms out there, some trademark attorneys, they really like being able to like beat their chest and say like, we have a 99% success rate with our trademarks.
And what they often do on the back backend is they get very risk averse and conservative with these search reports. And unless they see a very high likelihood of it being successful. They tell their clients not to move forward,
[00:21:50] Whitney Owens: which was my situation before I worked with you. Yeah,
[00:21:52] Joey Vitale: yeah. We, we take more of a perspective of putting, of putting ourselves in the shoes of our clients and saying, you know what, yes, there might be a, a low, a moderate risk here, but if we were in your shoes, we would still move forward despite the risks, even if that means that we can't.
Claim to have as high of a success rate as other firms out there. And I can't say that we've been able to to be right all the time there, but overwhelmingly our clients that move forward with that storm watch are, are very happy that they made that decision instead of deciding not to move forward.
[00:22:35] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well thank you for going back through the storm recap 'cause you said it so much better than it did. But at least I walked away with the right idea.
[00:22:45] Joey Vitale: Absolutely. No, that's a win in my bug.
[00:22:47] Whitney Owens: Right? And and that's the whole point is, is it simplifies it in a way that we understand. And I think that analogy is just perfect for what you're talking about.
So that second, I think being there that we were talking about was just this idea of it, not you, you, you're gonna explain it better than me, but basically on the defense.
[00:23:05] Joey Vitale: Yes. Oh, thank you for bringing up that language, Whitney. Yes, we're huge fans of thinking about. Brain protection in two ways. One as playing defense and one playing offense.
So the reality is most of our clients are not like bulldogs. Like they're not the types of business owners that are really wanting to spend tons of time and money and energy enforcing their rights against others, even if there's not a, a huge consequence to their business. A lot of them just want to be able, like we talked about, Whitney, to.
Go on vacation and not receive a cease and desist letter. Mm-hmm. And so they're much more concerned with playing defense than playing offense. And so when we go through the trademark application process, we're primarily interested in playing defense. Once your trademark does get registered, it does become more important to shift to offense because one of the wrinkles of trademark law is that if you don't enforce your rights, it can dilute or weaken your trademark rights.
So once your trademark is registered, we have monitoring plans and we really recommend that our clients sign up for those so that we can. Keep you in the loop if we see existing trademarks that get filed that you should be responding to, or at least mindful of, so to avoid those similar marks getting registered and then weakening your own rights.
[00:24:33] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Wow. That's a great service to have.
[00:24:36] Joey Vitale: Yeah. Yeah. We, we really love having it and, and our clients on the plans appreciate it too. Which brings us to the third mistake, you guys, I'm, I'm trying to stay high level here. Break this all down in plain English. Let let us know. I, I will say if you have not left a review for the podcast, please take a few minutes and do that here, and you can include there if I have not.
Said things simply let me know and I'll reach out to you and and try and explain these even more in plain English. But I'm a huge fan of trying to explain this stuff at like a fifth grade level. The third mistake that people make is saying, Joey, I did a search and I'm fine. And this is an interesting thing that I hear because on the one hand it tells me that you know enough about trademarks to know that you should run a search.
Mm-hmm. But there's a whole bunch of stuff underneath that that is just like mistaken logic that we need to talk through. Again, s smart business owners tend to have a real problem with trademarks because you can just logically jump to. Conclusions that unfortunately it just doesn't make sense in, in the, the trademark world.
So let me give you guys a, a quick story and then we'll backtrack to this whole like, search mistake. So Whitney, are you familiar with the brand Blue Apron?
[00:26:03] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:04] Joey Vitale: The food subscription box?
[00:26:06] Jingle: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Joey Vitale: So they own the registered trademark for Blue Apron, another company. Applied for Green Apron also in the food space.
[00:26:19] Jingle: Hmm.
[00:26:21] Joey Vitale: And it got denied.
[00:26:23] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:24] Joey Vitale: The trademark office's logic was, sure Blue and green are different colors, but if you put yourself in the shoes of a loyal Blue Apron customer and you get an ad for something called Green Apron about food. You might think that this is Blue Aprons, like all veggies box or a promo for their new like recycled packaging, whatever.
Oh yeah. What I love about this example is that the company that couldn't get Green Apron trademarked was Starbucks. Wow. Isn't that nuts? So number one, even big brands have to play by these same rules. But number two, that just goes to show you how broad your rights are when you are trademarked, but how, how much you have to be careful about doing a more comprehensive search when you're doing this availability stuff.
A lot of people, because of the way that business works elsewhere, like. If your domain's not available out of the, at the end or, or at the beginning, or an s at the end, make some small tweaks. And in a lot of areas in business, from domain names to social media accounts, those small tweaks are fine. And so people just think that that applies to trademarks too.
But a quick search isn't super helpful and even more importantly. Even if you run a comprehensive search, even if you work with a, an attorney or a law firm like indie law, you have to be careful to move forward as quickly as you can after the search is complete, because even a strong search has an immediate expiration date.
Hmm. And as we talked about before, over half a million applications are getting filed every year. So unfortunately we have seen that happen where someone reached out to us, we ran a search, things looked fine. Then I don't know what happened. They got busy, they ghosted us. They come back to us after a few months saying, okay, we're ready to move forward.
We run another search just to be safe, and we find out that another. Company out there filed for something similar before they got around here. Wow,
[00:28:49] Whitney Owens: that's so sad, isn't it?
[00:28:50] Joey Vitale: Yeah.
[00:28:51] Whitney Owens: We're so close. I laugh when you gave that analogy. 'cause I think that's so what people do, even as a business consultant I see all the time, they'll say, well, I listened to this thing, or I did this course, as if that taught them everything they needed to know.
But I think a good analogy for that is as therapists. That's like, that's like a friend being, that's like someone saying, well, I talked to my friend about my anxiety, so now I'm okay. Yeah, no, didn't go to a professional that can help you and give you tips and tricks, you know, and so it's, it's a similar idea there of thinking like, play lawyer, like lawyers go to school for a really long time and get a lot of trading experience for a reason.
[00:29:33] Joey Vitale: Yeah. Well, yes, yes. A and and I, I appreciate that. At the same time, like. I appreciate how intelligent you guys are to listen to this in the therapy world, and, and the, the last thing I want to do is make it seem like I am just holding back knowledge and that you have to be an attorney or whatever to take steps with this.
What, what I will say is. There is a danger to being a smart business owner when it comes to trademarks or the legal side because what we've seen happen a lot is business owners. The more they learn about trademarks, the more they get caught up in like, this is super interesting. What about this situation?
What about this situation? And they start to spend more of their time thinking about. Interesting situations versus staying in action.
[00:30:31] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:33] Joey Vitale: And so I could talk about this stuff all day 'cause I think it's so interesting and I wanna make sure that that busy business owners aren't getting stuck at the information gathering stage and that we are helping you take that next step in getting those filings in place.
[00:30:50] Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's such a good point. 'cause business owners love knowledge and we love exploring new things, right? Yeah. Figuring things out. So you're totally spot on with that. I love a, I love your stories. Do you have any more trademark stories to share with us, either to encourage us or to be like uhoh?
[00:31:07] Joey Vitale: There's, there's so many good ones. One of my favorites, and I'll say it, this is I, I don't know that this is the most. Like helpful story, but I do think it's super interesting and just shows how trademarks are fascinating.
[00:31:23] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:24] Joey Vitale: So LeBron James applied for a trademark for Taco Tuesday and it failed.
Mm-hmm. And then his attorney got interviewed and.
During the interview, they were talking about how when the trademark office denied it, they essentially said like, this is a super common phrase and no one company should own the rights to Taco Tuesday. Because it's so kind of generic, it, it's so kind of overused that no one hears it and thinks of one person or brand specifically.
[00:32:07] Jingle: Okay?
[00:32:08] Joey Vitale: And therefore it can't function as a trademark. Because trademarks need to have that sense of when you hear it or see it, you think of a particular brand. And so therefore, no one can own Taco Tuesday as a trademark. And LeBron James' attorney said this was actually a win and a strategy all along.
LeBron never wanted the Taco Tuesday trademark. I don't know if I believe what he is saying here, but I do like it. He's, he said now that we have received this response, LeBron James is so much more confident to talk about Taco Tuesday. 'cause he'll know that no one else can ever like, make him cease and desist.
Okay. But I do think that is a cautionary tale in anybody in like the therapy consulting, like online education space. There is a, a, a scary trend that I'm seeing. Where people are just coming up with very generic names for their businesses, their flagship service, their online course, their podcast, and there can be a time and a place for a name for something that's super descriptive or generic.
'cause I mean, maybe you just want it to be super SEO friendly, but just be mindful that it is very difficult, if not impossible. To get exclusive rights to that stuff through a trademark. So the, the con, if you do move forward with a very generic name for something, is that other companies can also use it, and you're very limited in your ability to go after them or to call them copycats.
Mm-hmm.
[00:33:52] Jingle: Hmm.
[00:33:53] Whitney Owens: Yeah, and that was, that was one of the things for me before, when I had worked with the attorney, she didn't think I would make it because of that reason. But I, I think it kinda goes back to what you were saying of y'all are advocating for people. Let, I think it's okay enough, let's try it because yes, this is.
You know, for me it's, it's the thing that I love. It's the thing I've created and I'm not changing it, knock on wood. Like it's, yeah. If
[00:34:15] Joey Vitale: there, if there's a chance, I mean, so much of this stuff is more of like a spectrum than black and white. Right? And I, I, I don't want to get into the particulars of anyone's situation, Whitney, but I, I will say that like your situation on that, on a, if we were to put it on a spectrum.
What you are building is not that Taco Tuesday situation where it's impossible Yes. For people to see it and hear it and think of anything because it's just so commonly used. Right?
[00:34:47] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. But it would be like, if you wanted to name your practice, you know, child counseling, you know, I mean, that would be so well known, you know?
[00:34:56] Joey Vitale: Yeah. And, and part of this to your point of like how we help you move forward with where you're at. I mean, if, if you're a client and you come to us and you've been using a, a name for something for years and, and like you Whitney said like, I love this, I'm not gonna change it. We keep that in mind as we recommend next steps.
If you come to us more at an earlier stage where you're. Coming up with a few names or you're even working with a naming strategist, we will shift our strategy at that stage to to say, okay, like if, if you're at a point where you're open to exploring more distinctive names, our preference is to look in that direction.
[00:35:39] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:35:40] Joey Vitale: If you're more of a blank slate, because that if you do that, then you get more trademark, exclusivity rights.
[00:35:49] Whitney Owens: Do people reach out to you in that place before they've come up with their name?
[00:35:53] Joey Vitale: Yes, they, they do, especially if they've gone through this before in like a previous business or they've pivoted one of our strongest referral partners.
And one of my best friends is a woman named Alexandra Watkins. She wrote the book, hello, my name is Awesome. Mm-hmm. And she runs one of the country's biggest naming agencies. So she coined the, the Wendy's Baconator. She works with big and small businesses and through her services and even her book, she's just got great recommendations and, and frameworks for coming up with a name.
If you don't yet have one.
[00:36:33] Whitney Owens: Oh, great. Wonderful. Well, this has been so helpful and enjoyable for me. I love the stories and the knowledge that you're offering, and you have a book, so can you tell us about your book and how to get it?
[00:36:45] Joey Vitale: I do. This new book that I published earlier this year is Legally Legit, the Step-by-Step Guide to Protecting Your Business and Owning Your Brand.
I'll give you guys a little bit of Insight Baseball with this book too. It includes attorney approved resources, like there's contract templates and other stuff that you get inside this book. There's an online complaint companion that you get access to, so it's almost like an online course and book form.
We did this basically to say, Hey, if you have questions about the legal side of your business, this book talks about everything, LLCs, contracts, and trademarks. And so inside the book, it'll really help you understand what are all of those legal stuff about and why is it that I focus on trademarks? So if you, I'm, I'm sharing this because we've talked so much about trademarks.
If you open the book and you read through it, you'll see that it's divided into parts. And like half of the book is about trademarks and the other half is about everything else.
[00:37:52] Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Yeah. Well, congratulations.
[00:37:55] Joey Vitale: Thanks, Whitney. Yeah.
[00:37:56] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So if somebody's interested in getting some trademark work or working on their name, what would you suggest?
How do they reach out to you?
[00:38:04] Joey Vitale: Thank you. You can always reach out to me at joey@indylaw.com. That's my personal email address. I'm happy to answer any questions. Hindi law also offers. Free consultations, so you can just go to indie law.com and, and book a free consultation from there. And then if you would like a copy of Legally Legit, you can just go to Amazon and purchase it.
[00:38:27] Whitney Owens: Good. Awesome. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on you wanted to make sure to mention today?
[00:38:33] Joey Vitale: No, other than Whitney, seriously, thank you for having me. And again, to the listeners, if you have not left a review, you have no idea how much those mean to, to Whitney, so please take some time, five minutes today and, and get that published for.
[00:38:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah, thank you. They do mean a lot. It's really fun to go back and read them. It
[00:38:52] Joey Vitale: is. And you've got, I mean, over 60. That's awesome.
[00:38:55] Whitney Owens: Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I enjoyed podcasting and this has been. Build of great information. So looking forward to airing this episode. And Joey, thank you so much for your time today.
[00:39:09] Jingle: So click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owens and the Wise Podcast,
practice
[00:39:23] Whitney Owens: Podcast. Special thanks to Marty Altman. For the music in this podcast, the Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Site Craft Podcast Network. A collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to site craft network.com.
The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
