WP141 | 5 Communication Mistakes Made by Leaders with Michael Diettrich-Chastain, LCMHC
Whether you're leading a group practice, managing a team, or heading a project, your ability to communicate directly shapes your success.
Yet even the best leaders can unintentionally undermine their message—and their mission—by falling into common communication traps.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain from ARC Integrated recently shared five of the most common communication mistakes leaders make, why they happen, and what to do instead. Here's a breakdown of his thoughtful, experience-based guidance.
Ignoring Communication Style Differences
Not everyone hears things the way you say them. One of the biggest mistakes a leader can make is assuming their style works for everyone.
Michael points to the DISC model, which outlines four primary communication styles:
D (Dominant): Direct and results-focused
I (Influential): People-centered and energetic
S (Steady): Calm, team-oriented, and supportive
C (Conscientious): Detail-driven and precise
Each style has its own motivations and fears—and what resonates with one team member might completely miss the mark with another. As a leader, your first job is to understand your own style, then adapt your message to meet others where they are. Without this awareness, even your clearest message can be misunderstood.
Being Unclear About Expectations
Leadership isn't about hoping your team reads your mind. It’s about making expectations visible, measurable, and check-in-able.
Michael recommends the SMART framework (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, Time-bound) not just for goal setting, but for everyday communication. Vague instructions like “do your best” or “get this done soon” leave too much room for interpretation.
A better approach:
🔹 What behavior do you want to see?
🔹 When do you want to see it?
🔹 How will success be measured?
🔹 When will you check in?
By clearly defining what you’re asking for, you remove ambiguity and build accountability.
Not Following Up
Even the most well-articulated plans can crumble without consistent follow-up.
Michael shares a model used at ARC Integrated called the Communication Map, which matches the severity of an issue with the frequency and detail of follow-up. For high-stakes situations, more communication is necessary up front, even if the ultimate goal is autonomy.
Skipping follow-ups often leads to missed deadlines, misalignment, and frustration on both sides. It’s not micromanaging—it’s responsible leadership.
Letting Fear of Reactions Get in the Way
This one hits close to home for many leaders, especially those in people-centered fields like mental health or education. We worry:
What if they get upset?
What if they quit?
What if they think I’m being too harsh?
But here’s the truth, Michael emphasizes: Clarity is kindness.
Being upfront about expectations and consequences helps your team members understand what’s expected and own their outcomes, good or bad.
Michael introduces the Success Map, a visual that outlines two paths:
One shows the opportunities available (raises, promotions, responsibility).
The other shows consequences for unmet expectations (write-ups, performance plans).
When people understand both the rewards and the risks, they can self-select how to move forward, without the leader having to constantly “manage” them.
Lack of Structure
All of these challenges come down to one root problem: no system in place.
When communication lacks structure, leaders are left to make reactive, emotionally draining decisions. But with clear frameworks—like the Communication Map or Success Map—you reduce stress, promote consistency, and create a shared playbook everyone can follow.
Michael reminds us that these strategies aren’t about becoming rigid—they’re about becoming clear, consistent, and compassionate.
Don’t Take It So Personally (Even Though It Feels Personal)
It’s hard not to take feedback or mistakes personally when you’ve built something from the ground up. Michael acknowledges this struggle and offers a tool to help: the 360 Assessment.
This tool gathers feedback from multiple people across different roles in your ecosystem to help you see if critiques are isolated or part of a broader theme. It’s an effective way to balance self-perception with how others experience your leadership, without spiraling into defensiveness.
Show Sponsor Arc Integrated
This episode is sponsored by Arc Integrated — a company that has truly transformed the way I lead. I’ve personally worked with Arc Integrated, and Michael was my business coach. He helped me restructure my leadership approach, delegate more effectively, and create systems that gave me fewer headaches and more time to focus on what matters. As a result, our team just had our best month yet — and I can confidently say that stepping into real leadership made it happen.
Arc Integrated specializes in helping leaders navigate change with confidence. Through personalized coaching, leadership training, and strategic planning, they help reduce stress, enhance communication, and build emotional intelligence within teams.
Visit arcintegrated.com/coaching to schedule your free leadership consultation. You’ll walk away with tangible strategies to drive the success of your practice.
Michael Diettrich-Chastain’s Resources
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: This episode is sponsored by Arc Integrated, a company that has truly transformed the way I lead. I've personally worked with Arc Integrated and Michael was my business coach. He helped me restructure my leadership approach, delegate more efficiently, and create systems that gave me fewer headaches and more time to focus on what matters.
As a result, my team just had our best month ever, and I can confidently say that stepping into real leadership made it happen. ARC integrated specializes in helping leaders navigate change with confidence Through personalized coaching, leadership training, and strategic planning, they help reduce stress.
Enhance communication and build emotional intelligence within teams. Visit arc integrated.com/coaching. Schedule your free leadership consultation. You will walk away with tangible strategies to drive the success of your practice. Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith-based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all.
Wanna grow your practice. Wanna grow your faith, wanna enjoy your life outside of work, you've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith-based practice while also having a good time. Now let's get started. I.
[00:01:20] Jingle: Where she grows your practice and she don't play.
She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owen and Wise Practice
[00:01:35] Whitney Owens: Podcast. Thank you for joining me today on The Wise Practice Podcast. I've got Michael Dietrich Chastain coming up for you. He personally has been my coach, helped me through so much in my group practice.
I cannot say enough about the coaching I've received from him and the changes it's made to bringing success in my business and just lowering my overall stress level and great growing my confidence as a group practice owner. So thrilled about introducing him to you, or maybe you've heard him on the show.
He is fantastic. And as I was just kind of thinking about this introduction, things I wanted to share with you, I wanted to talk a little bit about the difficult decisions we have to make in our business, especially as it continues to grow. I feel like as a group practice owner, it's just more and more decisions I have to make.
So if you're a group practice owner, or maybe you're starting a private practice, there are decisions coming your way every single day. But we do things differently. We are faith-based practice owners. We're gonna be thinking about things a little different. So if you're anything like the practice owners I talk to every single week, you've probably had moments when running your business feels so heavy, right?
Maybe it's hiring the right person, deciding on your rates, picking your logos, thinking about your branding, thinking about how you're gonna communicate being a faith-based practice in your community. How much do I talk about that? A lot, a little, I don't know. In these moments, it's so hard to make the right call and you likely feel stuck.
So let's chat for a few minutes. How can we trust God in these difficult business decisions? Not just in a vague, overly spiritual way, blah, but in practical ways, rooted in wisdom and faith and business acumen. You see, trusting God in your business doesn't mean sitting back, just waiting on a sun in the clouds.
Just pray and it'll all be okay. Right? We've heard that way too many times, but it doesn't mean that we take God outta the equation. We invite him into every part of our decision making process, through our times of prayer, our times of reading scripture, our times of just sitting with clients and being aware.
I even think about the times I'm on my walk or the times I wake up in the middle of the night with business decisions on my mind. In these moments, I invite God to be present 'cause he's speaking all the time through all the different things that we do. And I wanna encourage you to open up your heart and mind that when you're making a hard business decision, it doesn't have to just be you sitting down thinking through a decision, talking through it with someone else, even though those things can be great.
You might hear God in new and unique ways, so be ready for that. I also wanted to give you a few other tips on creating rhythms of listening and letting go of yourself and finding God in your business. So I want you to create that space to listen in the middle of a busy week. So maybe at lunchtime you take 10 minutes to just be quiet or take a walk around your office.
Inviting God's presence into your week. A lot of times I like to light a candle in the morning when I come into work, and in those moments of lighting that candle, I'm saying, God, whatever this day brings, I invite your presence to be with me and to make these decisions, to be with my clients when I'm podcasting, when I'm writing emails, and all the things I put on my calendar that I would be aware of what I'm doing in looking for you in that moment.
Also encouraging you to ask the right questions. Ask questions about what you're thinking about. Does this align with my values? Does this align with scripture? Have I done something like this before? Being curious and thoughtful instead of rushing into our decision making, and I want you to take faithful steps forward as God's leading you.
I know it's scary. I know for me, I'll feel God's presence urging me to do something. And once I make that commitment, I start to doubt. I start to freak out, oh, am I really gonna have the money for that? Am I gonna have the time for that? I'm not sure, but I can look back on my business and say that those are the moments when I had the most fear I the most certainty, really.
And then fear. Those are the moments that God did big things to take those faithful steps forward. As God is leading and guiding you, because here's the truth, running a private practice isn't just about business success. It is about living out your calling, your mission in your community, and allowing God to shape you as a leader in that process.
So as you're listening, maybe you're on a walk, maybe you're between sessions, maybe you're in your car. I want you to just take a deep breath and know that God is with you each moment of the way. So are we. This is a community. As you listen to this podcast, as we engage with one another, we are in this together, and I'm so thrilled that you were a part of this community.
So today I want you to lean in. I want you to explore what it looks like to make those wise, faithful decisions in your practice. And know that God is with you helping you make those decisions and he's bringing people along the way to help you. And I can certainly tell you that Michael was one of those people in my life.
He still is. I've had coaching throughout the years with him. I have found that going in and outta seasons of coaching based on what I have going on in my practice has been so beneficial for me. But Michael has also been a friend in the process. He's always there when I need him, when I can reach out to him.
Genuinely good person and he has so much great content to bring to you today. I'm looking forward to sharing with you these five common mistakes that we see with leaders in private practice. I can tell you I made all these mistakes and I have learned so much in my growth with them. Even looking back, I'm a different leader than I was even a year ago, but definitely a different leader than when I started my group practice.
So sit back. Relax, listen to what God's telling you and allow us to speak into your life on the five common mistakes made by leaders in private practice
Today. On the Last Practice podcast, I have Michael Dietrich Chastain, who is an expert on change movement management. Peak performance in the workplace as an executive coach, author, facilitator, licensed therapist, international speaker, Michael has a unique understanding of behavior change, leadership, workplace culture, and group dynamics.
He is the founder and CEO of arc, integrated in organizational consulting and executive functioning, executive coaching firm. In Asheville, North Carolina, Michael and his team specialize in creating company cultures of radical engagement and purpose through improving leadership, emotional intelligence and communication.
In the last two decades, he has helped thousands of leaders from across the globe improve their influence and impact. Thanks for coming on the show.
[00:09:02] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Whitney, it's great to see you as always. Thanks for having me.
[00:09:04] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I'm, I'm like reading your bio. I'm like, it's definitely Friday and I'm reading through something.
[00:09:10] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, it's great. You did great. Oh my gosh.
[00:09:12] Whitney Owens: Well, I always love having you on the show 'cause we have such good enriching conversations and anytime I talk to you, I have new things that I can be thinking about implementing, so. I appreciate you taking your time to be with us today.
[00:09:23] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, I, I always love connecting as well, and yeah, thanks again.
It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:09:28] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So today we're gonna talk about such an important topic because we hear this from group practice owners and just leaders in general across the board is these mistakes that we're making in communicating as leaders. That could be as a practice owner, but it could be in all areas of leadership really.
And so we're gonna jump into those five mistakes today. So I'm looking forward to that.
[00:09:50] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. You know, we, over a lot of years of doing this work with leadership development and team performance and cultural development. I just wanna make the comment that of all the challenges that leaders have, you know, from getting buy-in from employees to hiring and firing practices, to, you know, delegating, holding boundaries, getting people to perform the way they want to.
I would say the thing that comes up the, the most, there's like two or three of them. Communication is by far in that top three list, and I say that. With confidence across multiple sizes of organizations from, you know, a small business that has maybe a handful of employees to, you know, companies that have tens or hundreds of thousands.
Communication comes up as a, as a big pain point often, and, you know, and thankfully there's a lot of great strategies to work on it. And so I'm, yeah, I'm excited to jump in.
[00:10:40] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, and I can just speak from my own experience that communication was something I really had to work on. And you know, I've hired you a couple of times to be my personal coach and the first go round, that was pretty much exactly what we worked on because my practice had gotten to about.
I don't, I can't remember exactly where I was at around then, but probably around 10 therapists, give or take a few. And it was kind of becoming to a point where I couldn't manage very well and I wasn't really sure what I was doing wrong. And the employees were kind of honestly doing what they wanted to do.
[00:11:09] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:10] Whitney Owens: And learned that communication was something I needed to work on. And it was, it was game changer. So I'm, I think this is such an important topic that we're bringing to the table.
[00:11:18] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm curious if you're open to share a questions coming to mind for me, which is like, what is, what is a strategy around communication that you changed that comes to mind right away across that work we did together?
[00:11:31] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Well, you always have the best questions, so I'm always open to your questions. Yes. So I, being direct. Is probably the biggest one. Mm-hmm. I think I, I didn't realize how confusing my communication was to the team members.
[00:11:48] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:49] Whitney Owens: And them not knowing what I was thinking and what I expected out of them all that was not made clear.
[00:11:57] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. It's such a, it's such a common trend and it's interesting, right? Like the, some, some leaders that we've worked with over the years, like that's the job, right? Is to be more direct, more, more specific with their asks, you know, more, more explicit. And for others it's the opposite.
For others, it's like being, you know, more patient or more, more calm, maybe, maybe a little more relationally oriented. And so, which I, which I think maybe is when we think about like the mistakes leaders make, maybe that's a good segue into the, into the first one, which is this notion of, you know, stylistic differences.
And as I know you know this, and tho those are listening, have, have probably, maybe some of you have heard of the the disc, DISC, which is a great way to think about communication style, right? And those and those styles. Really, generally speaking, there's four major styles. One is being very direct, like you said.
The second one is being much more relational and, and like personal based. The third one is being more emphasized on the, on what does the team need, what does the group need? It's typically a little more introverted. It's typically a little bit more slow paced. And then the fourth one is very detail oriented, very information based.
Much more introverted, much less people oriented, and very much oriented towards specificity. And so I, I bring that up because I think the, one of the, one of the biggest responsibilities we, we have as leaders is to first know that styles even exist. Mm-hmm. And then secondly, understand, well, what's my, what's my style?
And that's great. There's strengths to all the styles, but the reality is everybody's style is different. So it's our responsibility to pivot based on who's in front of us and to be able to lean into their style. Because when we can do that, the, the message often translates. And when, when we don't do that, this is where communication gets disrupted.
[00:13:54] Whitney Owens: Oh, that is so important. And a, as you know, I'm like a Enneagram lover.
[00:13:59] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So that
[00:14:00] Whitney Owens: kind of goes hand in hand. It's a similar concept. It's like, mm-hmm. I know all my Enneagram of all my team members. And so then trying to sit with them within that and knowing how I communicate, how they communicate and that, what I love about the Enneagram too, and the disc probably picks up on some of this, is the, the motivation behind people's actions and behavior.
[00:14:22] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Exactly. So
[00:14:22] Whitney Owens: being able to speak to them, like the way I'm gonna speak to someone who's the helper, who's always giving, is very different than the way I'm gonna speak to someone who might be more of a people pleaser. Just kind of go with the flow, you know? It's gonna change the way we interact with one another.
When before I used to think, well, doesn't everyone think like I do?
[00:14:41] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Right, right. Exactly. And they don't, you're absolutely right. Yeah. The, the disc as an example also has that same methodology, like it looks at what does that style want? And what do they fear? Mm. So like for instance, the, the D style, the directive, the the wanting to get to the finish line.
What they really, really want is they wanna win and they want to get answers, and they want to get to the result. What, what they fear is a loss. I. They fear, they fear losing or they fear not being able to accomplish. The I though is very different, right? The I is all about interpersonal. So what they want is they want to connect and they want to feel like they have a relationship.
And the fear is the opposite, right? Like they fear disconnection or like there isn't enough of a relatability and and so on and so forth. Yes. And the C also have drivers and fears.
[00:15:31] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. So, so the first one is just us understanding our leadership. Or I guess our communication styles.
[00:15:38] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:39] Whitney Owens: The styles of our team members and how they interact with one another.
[00:15:43] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: A hundred percent. Yep. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Do you wanna ask another, another question, or should I keep rolling?
[00:15:52] Whitney Owens: I'm, I'm ready for the next one. You
[00:15:53] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: ready for the next one? Okay. All right. So the next mistake that often gets made related to communication is being unclear about expectations. Hmm.
And, or, you know, un unclear. Or maybe, or maybe vague. And so when we, like an, like an example of doing this well would be, you know, using something like, like the smart criteria for, for goal setting, which is interesting, right? 'cause that's, that's related to goal setting. But we're, we're talking about communication style.
And there's actually a parallel here. So when we talk about setting expectations. We wanna be really clear about like, what's the behavior we, we want to see? What's the timeline in which we want to see it? How will we measure success? What will tell us if we're going in the right direction or the wrong direction?
And when are we gonna check in with each other about, you know, the kind of where we're at in the, in the process? And so, yeah. So those, those unclear expectations are a real risk as well. Would you add anything to that?
[00:16:52] Whitney Owens: Well, I think that's so important. I liked everything you said. I'm smiling here going, yeah, that's right.
I guess I'm also just sitting here thinking about how often do leaders think they've made their expectations clear and they actually haven't.
[00:17:05] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah. Well I would say that that, I see that a lot and I would say it also ties into the first thing we talked about this, this, you know, ignorance around, and I don't say ignorance in a derogatory way, you know, just, just the fact that maybe they haven't learned this yet and that's okay.
The fact that they don't know the style often results in, they communicate something in a style that they have, thinking that it's landed, thinking that the other person gets it. It's just over the other person's head because it's a stylistic mismatch. Mm-hmm. And so I would say yes, it definitely often happens where a, a message is given and it's not received.
[00:17:42] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I, I find the past year, I would say what I've really learned about myself is I have a lot in my head that I think I've said that I actually haven't said.
[00:17:52] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm, yeah. Yeah, totally. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:54] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So then I think that, oh, well, they know what I want. And they actually don't. Yeah, I get 'em frustrated because they don't meet those expectations.
And I would say it's something, and I work together that we really narrowed in on was, I'm gonna actually write it down. Like instead of just saying something in a meeting or expecting them to know that this is the numbers I want you to hit. Mm-hmm. Like, no, I'm actually gonna write that in your job description.
[00:18:22] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yep.
[00:18:22] Whitney Owens: Have you sign it. Tell you what it looks like, how often we're meeting about it, and all those things, which to me seemed like, ugh. Like I gotta do all that. You know? Like, can't they just do what I say and do it? But the more I do take that time to do those things, it's transformative for the business.
[00:18:43] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:44] Whitney Owens: React.
[00:18:45] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, you're absolutely right. Like these efforts, they take more time, they take more energy on the front end, but I, I think what they're, what they're preventing, and I see this in all the work that that we do, what they're preventing is rework, and what they're preventing is disengagement.
Right. So even though it's a lot of work in the front end, the value that it's creating long-term far outweighs the time and energy spent on the front end, which interestingly, that's kind of kind of the good segue into the third tip that maybe is worth mentioning around, you know, mistakes of communication, which is no follow up.
Hmm. So oftentimes there can be like a plan that's put into place, and we think it's crystal clear and the employee signs it and they think they're really clear on it, but there's not a follow up plan. And, and we circle back to them, whatever, three months later and we say, okay, how we doing? And, and it, and then we realize, oh, there's this.
There's this mismatch of communication and the expectations weren't clear. And, you know, it's, it's a lot of, a lot of time lost where alternatively we could say, Hey, let's, you know, you're not gonna get this project done and it's gonna be a three month project, but let's check in next week and see where we're at.
You know, real briefly, there's a, it reminds me, there's a, a, a model that we use at ARC integrated called the communication Map. You may, may have seen this at some point, Whitney. It's the idea that there's a, there's two, if you imagine like an A, an XY axis, right? Uhhuh on one axis you've got level of detail and frequency of communication.
And on the other axis you've got severity of the issue. And if you think both axes are on a zero to 10 scale, if the severe to the issue is a nine. Frequency and detail communication should also be a nine right now. It's not to say that we wanna stay checking in with this person in great detail, you know, every other day.
'cause ultimately we wanna, we wanna move toward autonomy, right? Ultimately, but that's where we have to start. We have to match severity with frequency and detail and that that gets into this kind of problem of no follow up. We were talking about.
[00:20:53] Whitney Owens: Hmm. I do know that map because we worked on it together.
[00:20:58] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:58] Whitney Owens: I used to run away from problems. I'd be like, well, I said it one time, why aren't they doing it? Right?
[00:21:06] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:07] Whitney Owens: And then when you were like, your communication should match the severity of the problem, I was like, oh. No wonder this isn't getting better. I'm not talking about it. They don't think about it.
It's not, it's not discussed, and it doesn't mean that we're wagging our finger, you know, tot you know, it, it's, it's, Hey, we're gonna talk about this because I wanna support you. How can we plan for this? How can I care for you and improve this thing worse? And, and as I've grown as a leader in my group practice.
What you're sharing with me, it's like I'm taking that and sharing it with my team because now they're leading people and they don't wanna talk about that stuff. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. Like what do, what would the alternative be that we ignore the very thing that's actually gonna help everyone out and bring us more profit and make us run better?
Because we don't wanna talk about it. Like,
[00:21:56] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: yeah,
[00:21:57] Whitney Owens: it's the opposite of what we want and we need to be talking about this. So, yeah.
[00:22:02] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, and I, you know, I think the fear, like the fear comes from a really rational place. And I, and I would say you're, you're absolutely in good company, right? The fear of not wanting to kind of ruffle feathers.
The fear of, well, what if, you know, what if they, what if they get mad? What if they quit? What if you know, a lot, all these, all these what ifs, which, which I think is a good segue into the kind of fourth, fourth tip we were talking about, or challenge around communication, which is an overconcern about people's reaction.
Right. Which, which is, it's a, I would say it's like really, again, very, very common and easy to get to get wrapped into, right? Because we, we care, we care about how people are doing. We want them to be, you know, we want them to be good, good performers in our business and happy individuals and, and all of that.
And so, you know, and there's the clearer we can be that that is a form of care as well. You know, there's, there's another map that we'll use with, and, and I don't, you, you and I may have looked at this one too. We call it the success map. And it's, imagine like an arrow going up on an angle, a stair step, and a stair step kind of arrow going down.
And in the middle is kind of present time. And I, and I bring this up because the, the arrow going up is all about. What's available to this employee? What are the opportunities? What are the, what are the bonuses? What are the, you know, raises and or promotions that might be available? Is there, you know, is there money involved?
Is there authority involved? Is there responsibility involved? Like what's, what is the future? Most exciting vision look like within the company. And then the stair step going down is if we're not getting, doing the behaviors that we are expecting, what does that look like? And it's not gonna immediately look like them getting fired usually.
Right? Unless there's some really, you know, horrible thing that's been done. But usually there's a process for that too. Maybe it's a writeup, maybe it's a, a second writeup. Maybe it's a pip. Then maybe it's okay, we're no longer a good fit. But both of those paths, the path to the path to like the exciting future and the path to consequence, in my experience, they need to be very, very explicit.
I. Ideally they need to be almost like a visual tool, which is why we use the, the map that we do. 'cause it's a helpful model for people to be able to see. And, and I bring that up because that's a way to kind of visualize in a compassionate way, here's the options that, that someone has. Mm-hmm. You know, that maybe is the, maybe is the response to an overconcern about what they're gonna think.
It's like, well, what if we give them exactly what we want? Both from an opportunity standpoint as well as how we're gonna hold 'em accountable. And then it allows them to, to be the empowered people, right? They get to decide their future. They get to, you know, weave what's, what's coming up for them. We're rather than us be feeling like we need to, you know, wave our finger all the time and, and, you know, triple check on everything.
And so, so anyway, I'll, I'll pause there and see if that brings up anything for you.
[00:25:02] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I love, I love that visual. I think it's great. I. I do think a lot of people don't want to have conversations with their team members From what you said, like we're worried that we're gonna offend someone, or a lot of people worried that someone's gonna quit.
Like they just jump to that worst case scenario.
[00:25:19] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Whitney Owens: But another way to think about it that I have had to really work on is I'm actually doing them a disservice by not telling them the problem. Right. I'm actually hurting them. So it's like we think, oh, I'm gonna hurt someone's feelings because I say this thing.
Well, it's even worse that I see that they're not doing their job. I'm mad about it. It's getting to the point of resentment or firing or whatever, and I haven't made that clear. That's even worse for them.
[00:25:48] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, it is. And I would say it's worse for the culture too. Because you're, take, you're, you're creating a downstream consequence of, or a norm you could say around what kind of, what's the expectation for people here.
[00:26:00] Jingle: Mm-hmm. And if the
[00:26:01] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: expectation is, well, they're not challenged, they're not talked to, things get kind of put under the rug that's sending a message to the, to the entire culture, which is, has consequences.
[00:26:10] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. And I, I really liked your point about having something in place for what to do when things don't.
Go aren't going well.
[00:26:19] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah.
[00:26:19] Whitney Owens: And that was something we worked on in coaching. You were like, so what's your behavioral plan or discipline plan? And I'm like, A what? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, yes. It's so great to have that stuff in place. This just happened on Monday. Yeah. The leadership team was meeting, we had a situation with an employee and we were like, okay, let's pull out the plan.
What have we done already? What do we still need to do? And it was so great to be able to. To go back to that and make those changes appropriately, and it was something the team has already seen. They have access to this document. They know what the steps are. They see that we're helping them, but they also see the consequence and it's fair for them to know this is what's coming.
If you can't do these things in your job.
[00:26:59] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. I love, I love that you, you're using it, you know, in with the whole group involved, which is, which is a good jump to the, to the final, the fifth point around. Mm-hmm. Count as a communication, which is lack of structure. If, if these, which is, which is a little bit of a kind of meta point around all five of these, but I think it's an important one to mention for the reason that you just described, right?
When we have structures in place, it makes decision making easier and more lighthearted and smoother and less stressful, right? Because we can just pull up our structures and say, okay, team, where are we at? Here's, here's our playbook, here's our way in which we've agreed to operate as a collective.
[00:27:40] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:27:41] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: So I think having those, having those collective agreements, not just with the leadership team, but with the entire culture, it just creates more ease from everyone because ultimately we're, we're all always asking the question inside any system, right? Whether it's a business, a family, a couple, we're always asking, what's expected of me?
How can I contribute? Am I safe here?
[00:28:04] Whitney Owens: Right
[00:28:04] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: structures, answer these questions.
[00:28:07] Whitney Owens: Mm. Oh yeah. I love that.
[00:28:09] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Right?
[00:28:10] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I feel like for me, what, when I was younger and my leadership skills, I. I would become very emotional or take it personally when true a response came and, and I think team members sometimes take it personally, well, the boss has it out for me or whatever.
And so those structures really do take that emotional component out of it and makes it just black and white.
[00:28:38] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:38] Whitney Owens: I need that because you know what I, there are some employees I love dearly. And they're not gonna be able to meet these criteria. They may not be here anymore, you know, or whatever the thought might be.
Yeah. And it takes that emotion out of it and, and what I also really like is I can say, Hey, here's the job requirement. You get to choose if you do it or not. You're actually choosing to be let go fired or whatever. I'm not choosing it for you.
[00:29:09] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Right, exactly. I'm not
[00:29:10] Whitney Owens: wanting it.
[00:29:11] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, it's empowering, right?
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I wanna emphasize something you said though, just to, to offer some, some compassion to it. 'cause I'm guessing those that are listening probably nodding their heads to the, taking it too personally, I think I just, I wanna offer empathy to that because, you know, in, in anything that we're doing, like.
Building a business, it's really hard not to take it personally, right? Because it's like our, our, our baby, our thing, our thing that we're so passionate about. We've built it from the ground up and, and it is personal. And I can think of the time just last week we were doing an event and, and got some really critical feedback and it was really rough.
It was hard, you know, and, and I think, I think it's just wanna normalize the fact that it, it's, it is difficult. To not take things personal and these strategies we're talking about, I think are a, are a way to lessen that personalization.
[00:30:08] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely it is. It's something we love for sure. I.
[00:30:13] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Yeah, no doubt.
No doubt. What other, I'm curious, are there other questions that are coming up for you about anything that you're dealing with, whether it's about communication or anything else related to leadership that's top of mind for you?
[00:30:26] Whitney Owens: I think a big part of this has been working on my own communication and then learning how to teach my team members that are leaders to do the same thing.
[00:30:37] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm. Yeah.
[00:30:39] Whitney Owens: So that's been different for me because I, we developed a leadership team. You know, this was when we were working together most recently and really worked on job descriptions, expectations, success, outcomes, all that kinda stuff. And so I'll first say building my leadership team game changer. For my own emotional capacity, my own enjoyment of my job.
I used to just feel like I was holding so much for the practice and now I hold it with these three other people and awesome be made every week. But now I'm making them hold people accountable, right? And so I look at them and I see myself, oh, that was me. And I mean, I'm not gonna say I'm past all this.
I'm not. But I see that, and now I'm teaching them how to do the very things that I worked on. So they can be those leaders.
[00:31:28] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Well, congratulations. That's, that's super cool. I think that, like what I see in, in larger businesses is that's how to, you know, the path to autonomy and, and radical growth, you know, is building, you know, leaders who build leaders.
[00:31:44] Whitney Owens: Oh yeah. Leadership leaders.
[00:31:46] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: I like that. Yeah. So you're, you're, that's cool that you're seeing that in real time. Mm-hmm. That's real, that's real special.
[00:31:53] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:31:54] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Very cool. Very cool.
[00:31:55] Whitney Owens: Well, gosh, well, we could go into so many details here. Oh, I knew I had something on mind. I, I totally, really do need another cup of coffee every, like, thought I had, it's like gone like that.
Yeah. This idea of, oh my gosh, don't leave me of reminding myself that I'm the bo, I'm the boss for a reason.
[00:32:15] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm.
[00:32:15] Whitney Owens: Like, I think it's so easy for me when I get that you were talking about critical feedback. So a therapist comes and gives me this feedback, or I start to question myself, you know? And then I'm like, wait, like it's good to take some feedback and think through it.
Let's, let's do that.
[00:32:30] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:31] Whitney Owens: But I'm successful for a reason. This practice got here for a reason and it's because I know what I'm doing.
[00:32:39] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah. No doubt. Because I'm
[00:32:41] Whitney Owens: doing it well, and I think so many of us as therapists, especially that introspection piece and just self blame, I think it's so important that we come back to, I'm a leader for a reason.
[00:32:52] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:53] Whitney Owens: And I, I can stand strong in that.
[00:32:56] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Y yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing, like the nature of how much do you. Em embrace feedback that's been given. Mm-hmm. Versus, you know, to your, to your point like, well, I'm, I've been successful. Maybe this feedback that I'm getting is, is inaccurate. Or maybe the person doesn't have the, the context necessary that is influencing their, their feedback.
I, you know, I think one potential answer to that is a, a tool called a a 360 assessment. Yeah. Are you familiar with those? I think we've talked about, no, the three a 360 assessment is, there are many org companies that have them out there. Right. But the, but basically they're a assessment that you take on your own.
Just like any, you answer a bunch of questions and then that same question set is sent out to a bunch of folks that, that you know, could be people that work for you. Could be. Previous bosses, other people in your ecosystem that know you as a leader. And then that data is accumulated and it's, and then it, the, the assessment is looking at the difference between self-perception and other people's perception of me.
And I, and I bring that up because I think this is a way to determine, is the feedback I'm getting, is it, you know, a one or two off based on someone that doesn't really know me or doesn't have the context? Or is it thematic? I. Is this feedback, you know, coming in from a bunch of different angles and maybe they're using different language, but they're kind of saying the same thing.
And so I think that that tool we've, we've used these for years with clients and have found them to be extremely insightful. I. For people that use 'em. And I, and I've done 'em myself as well, and I've found it to be very insightful. Super helpful.
[00:34:45] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I like that. Yeah. And that just reminds me of that, you know, we were talking about follow up, like the importance of meeting with team members and saying, Hey, what do you think about this policy?
Or mm-hmm. How am I leading you and how do you experience that? And, and that was really hard for me to start asking those questions at first. But then when I started getting the feedback and I was like, oh gosh, like you really saw it like this? Or like I communicated that like mm-hmm Thank goodness somebody told me so that I can make these changes.
Mm-hmm. And feedback is so important.
[00:35:17] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And, and absolutely. And you know, as you say that, like, you know, that's a way to kind of do your own 360 assessment is just to take a question that you're really curious to determine is there a theme around the answers? And just start asking it to whatever, 10, 10 of your employees, or you know, three or four year leaders, and see what themes emerge so you can ab Yeah, absolutely.
Do it that way.
[00:35:38] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well Michael, this has been so great and I'm excited 'cause you're gonna be speaking about leadership at the Wise Practice Summit this year.
[00:35:47] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm super excited. It's gonna be fun. Can I say, can I say one thing about that that might, might be interesting for folks Uhhuh?
Yeah. And so, you know, over the years working with leaders from all sorts of companies in, in great volume, you know, they're, they're all asking. Various kinds of questions. And so questions might be, you know, how do I get my, you know, my, my integrator or my operator to like really delegate? Or how do I get this team over here to communicate more effectively?
Or how do I get, you know, this, this VP of of sales to be more empathetic. So there's a lot of different questions, but ultimately what I'm, what I'm been thinking a lot about lately is that I think they're really just asking one question, overarchingly, which is, how do I as a leader influence the behavior of other people?
I. And so the talk up in your, at your conference, that's what we're gonna be talking about is how do, how do I as a leader influence the behavior of others in a way that's predictable, in a way that's gonna create long-term behavior change? I. And so I'll, I'll, I, I won't, I won't say the, the answer to that.
Maybe, maybe that's, maybe that's the hook. Nice. But I'm, I'm really excited to talk about it because it's, it's something I'm very passionate about and, and live and breathe every day working with, with leaders. And so I'm, I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.
[00:37:11] Whitney Owens: Good. 'cause I need to know.
[00:37:13] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah. Well you'll, I think you'll be at the I'll
[00:37:15] Whitney Owens: be there.
I'll be there. Yeah.
[00:37:18] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Well, I'm, I'm excited
[00:37:20] Whitney Owens: about that. And then ARC Integrated will be sponsoring, so Michael will be there to answer all your questions to chat with you. So if you're a leader, which all of you probably are, we should definitely check out the Wise Practice Summit, which is on the consulting.
Webpage so. Well, Michael, we're looking forward to seeing you then and you always provide so much information, so thank you for taking the time to be with us today.
[00:37:42] Michael Diettrich-Chastain: Yeah, Whitney, always a pleasure to hang out and to chat. I always enjoy it and I'm looking forward to connecting in soon.
[00:37:48] Whitney Owens: Great. Well thank you.
[00:37:52] Jingle: So click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owens and The Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owens and Wise Practice
[00:38:07] Whitney Owens: Podcast. Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Site Craft Podcast Network. A collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives.
To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to site craft network.com. The Wise Practice podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
