WP177 | Scaling to Multiple Locations with Todd Call
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What does it actually look like to grow a group practice across multiple locations?
In this episode, I’m joined by Todd Call, co-owner of Triology, a Christian counseling group practice based in Kalispell, Montana. Todd has nearly three decades of experience as a therapist, and today his work focuses on visionary leadership and building organizations that help people thrive.
Todd shares how Triology began with a simple conversation between two therapists whose caseloads were full and whose waiting lists kept growing. Instead of continuing to turn people away, they started asking a bigger question: What would it look like to keep saying yes to the people who need help? That question eventually led them to hire therapists, expand their team, and build a practice that now serves multiple communities across Montana.
We talk through what it’s really like to grow beyond a single office. Todd shares the early days of running two locations, navigating long travel distances between towns, and figuring out how to keep a team connected when people aren’t working under the same roof.
Todd also opens up about the leadership shifts that came with growth. Early on, he realized that simply having an open-door policy wasn’t enough to support a growing staff. As the practice expanded, he and his partner had to create more structure, strengthen their leadership systems, and clarify the mission driving their work.
We also discuss how faith plays a role in Triology’s mission and how Todd and his team partner with churches and communities to support mental health in a holistic way.
In this episode, we discuss:
Why does expanding to a new location often require a completely different marketing strategy
The leadership changes that happen when a practice grows beyond one office
How culture evolves when teams are spread across multiple locations
What Todd learned after losing $40,000 in early billing mistakes
Why staying connected in person still matters when managing a growing team
If you’re thinking about opening a second location or wondering what it takes to scale a practice across cities or states, this conversation will give you a realistic look at the opportunities and challenges that come with expansion.
What Happens When Your Practice Outgrows One Location
Opening a second location sounds exciting. It also forces you to rethink almost everything about how your practice operates.
When I opened my second location about a year ago, I realized quickly that scaling a practice is not just about finding another office and hiring more therapists. It changes your leadership, your systems, your culture, and how your team communicates.
That’s why I wanted to have Todd Call on the podcast. Todd is the co-owner of Triology, a Christian counseling group practice in Montana that has grown into multiple locations across the state. Hearing how he and his partner built their practice was incredibly helpful because their growth didn’t happen from a perfect strategy. It grew out of a real need.
And that’s often how expansion starts.
The Question That Started It All
Todd and his business partner both had thriving private practices. Their schedules were full, and they had waiting lists of people trying to get in.
Like many therapists, they didn’t enjoy saying no to people who needed help.
One day over lunch, they started asking a simple question: What if we could keep saying yes?
That question led them to consider hiring therapists to work under them. From there, they spent about a year figuring out how to structure a group practice, and Triology was born.
Interestingly, they didn’t merge their private practices completely. Each of them kept their own private practice while also co-owning the group practice together.
It gave them a safety net in case the group practice didn’t work out.
Eight years later, it’s safe to say the practice worked.
Starting a Multi-Location Practice Without Meaning To
One thing that stood out to me in Todd’s story is that they technically started with multiple locations from the beginning.
Todd lived in a small town called Eureka near the Canadian border, while his partner lived in Kalispell. Instead of opening a brand new office, they simply allowed their first therapists to see clients in the offices they already had.
Over time, Kalispell naturally became the hub of the practice because of the population size. Todd eventually moved there, and they expanded office space as the team grew.
But they still kept the original location running as well.
What started as a practical solution slowly became a multi-location model.
The Unexpected Challenges Of Multiple Locations
One of the biggest surprises Todd shared was how logistical challenges show up quickly when your practice spans multiple towns.
For example, therapists commuting between locations requested mileage reimbursement. That became an unexpected expense early on.
Travel also affected team connection. When everyone isn’t working in the same building, meetings, supervision, and collaboration start to look very different.
At first, they tried to keep everyone together for meetings whenever possible. But as they added more locations, they realized technology and distance would always be part of the equation.
This is something I experienced as well when opening my second location.
You quickly learn that what worked with one office doesn’t always work the same way with two.
When Growth Forces You To Become A Different Leader
Todd shared something that I think a lot of practice owners will resonate with.
Early on, he and his partner believed they were supporting their team well because they had an open-door policy. If therapists needed help, they could come ask.
But as the practice grew, they realized that wasn’t enough.
Reading the book Traction and working with a consultant pushed them to rethink how they were leading their organization. They began implementing more structure, clearer systems, and stronger leadership rhythms.
Scaling a practice forces you to move from therapist-thinking to CEO-thinking.
That shift doesn’t happen automatically.
How Faith Shapes Their Mission
One of the things that makes Triology unique is the role faith plays in their mission.
Their guiding purpose is to help people thrive through mind, body, and soul.
Counseling supports the mind. They’re developing additional health resources to support the body. And they partner with churches and pastors to help address the spiritual side of people’s lives.
Todd shared an observation that really stuck with me.
When someone in a church announces they have cancer, the community often surrounds them with support immediately. But when someone shares that they’re struggling with depression, people sometimes don’t know how to respond.
Part of Triology’s mission is helping churches better understand and respond to mental health needs.
What Their Practice Looks Like Today
Today, Triology operates four physical locations.
Two offices are in Kalispell, which serves as their headquarters. They also have an office in Eureka and another in Billings.
Their team includes nine therapists and a mental health coach, along with several administrative staff.
As they expand, their goal is to grow each location to roughly three or four therapists before opening the next one.
Their long-term vision is to eventually serve every major city in Montana.
The Hard Truth About Expanding Into New Cities
Todd shared a lesson that many practice owners underestimate.
When you open a location more than an hour away from your main office, marketing becomes an entirely different challenge.
When their practice grew locally, they relied almost entirely on word-of-mouth referrals. Their reputations in their community helped keep their schedules full.
But when they opened a location seven hours away in Billings, nobody knew who they were.
The referral pipeline didn’t exist yet.
That meant they had to start learning traditional marketing strategies and building visibility in a brand new community.
Expansion doesn’t just duplicate your current success. It often requires a completely new strategy.
Why Culture Becomes More Complex As You Grow
One of the most fascinating parts of the conversation was how Todd described “microcultures” within each location.
Even though all locations operate under the same mission and core values, each office develops its own personality.
That’s something I’ve noticed too.
Even something as simple as communication can start to shift. When my practice grew into two locations, our group text thread literally hit its limit. We had to split communication into separate threads for each office.
Over time, each group naturally develops its own rhythms and inside jokes.
That doesn’t mean the culture is broken. It simply means it’s evolving.
The key is making sure everyone is still aligned around the same values and direction.
Why In-Person Time Still Matters
Even with technology and video meetings, Todd emphasized the importance of being physically present with the team.
Their practice holds weekly supervision meetings and quarterly trainings, and they intentionally bring people together in person whenever possible.
As they expand further, they plan to travel to each location for training rather than relying solely on video calls.
Therapists spend their careers sitting with people face-to-face.
It makes sense that connections within the team work best the same way.
Lessons From A $40,000 Billing Mistake
Todd also shared one of the toughest lessons from their early days.
During their first year running the group practice, they relied on several different billing professionals who gave them poor guidance. Those mistakes ultimately cost the practice around $40,000.
It was a painful experience.
Eventually, they brought billing in-house by hiring an employee who became part of their team and culture.
That change helped them gain more control and clarity over their revenue cycle.
Running billing for a group practice is very different from handling it for a solo practice. When hundreds of sessions are happening every week, small issues can multiply quickly.
Why Community Matters As You Grow
Todd also talked about why he joined the Wise Practice membership community.
Like many practice owners, he reached a point where he needed answers to specific leadership and business questions that were difficult to find elsewhere.
What he discovered was more than just advice.
He found a group of practice owners who understood the unique challenges of running group practices and scaling organizations.
That kind of peer support can make an enormous difference when you’re making big decisions about growth.
The Real Work Of Scaling A Practice
Opening additional locations is exciting.
But it also requires new leadership skills, stronger systems, and intentional culture-building.
You can’t simply replicate what worked when you were a solo practitioner.
Growth requires you to think bigger, plan further ahead, and lead differently.
The encouraging part is that none of us has to figure it out alone. Conversations like this one with Todd remind me how valuable it is to learn from people who are walking the same path.
And sometimes the best ideas start with a simple question.
What if we could keep saying yes?
Free Webinar March 24th @ 12:00 PM
If you’ve ever looked at your calendar and thought, “I know I’m a good therapist… so why isn’t my caseload fuller?” — you’re not alone.
Many of us were trained to provide excellent clinical care, but we were never taught how to consistently generate referrals or build a steady financial foundation. And when your caseload is inconsistent, it’s not just frustrating — it can create real stress around income and stability.
I’m Whitney Owens — private practice consultant and owner of a thriving private-pay group practice — and I’m hosting a free live training called “Why Your Caseload Isn’t Full (Even Though You’re a Great Therapist)” on Tuesday, March 24th at 12:00 PM Eastern.
In this webinar, I’ll walk you through the five key areas that determine whether your practice feels steady or unpredictable — and what you can begin adjusting immediately to create a more consistent, sustainable caseload.
If you’re a solo or group practice owner ready to stop guessing and start building with confidence, I’d love for you to join me.
Go to wisepracticeconsulting.com/events to register.
I’ll see you on March 24th at noon Eastern.
Meet Todd Call, MS, LMFT, LCPC
Todd is the co-owner of Thrivology, a Christian group practice based in Kalispell, Montana. Todd has 29 years of experience as a therapist, and is now focused on the visionary leadership of people and organizations. He is married with 7 children and 7 pets, so please pray for his wife!
Todd’s Resources
Links and Resources
Join the Wise Practice Membership Community (Doors close March 27th)
Learn More about Wise Practice Consulting
Connect with Wise Practice on Instagram
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Scaling to Multiple Locations with Todd Call _ WP 177
[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: If you've ever looked at your calendar and thought, I know I'm a good therapist, so why isn't my caseload fuller? You are not alone. Many of us were trained to provide excellent clinical care, but we never learned how to consistently generate referrals or build a steady financial foundation. So when your caseload is inconsistent, it's not just frustrating, it creates a lot of stress around income instability.
As a private practice consultant and the owner of a thriving multi-location private group practice, I am here to help you. I'm hosting a free training called Why Your Caseload Isn't Full, even though you're a great therapist on Tuesday, March 24th at 12 o'clock Eastern. In this webinar, I'm gonna walk you through five key areas that determine whether your practice feels steady.
Or unpredictable and what you can begin to adjust immediately to create a more consistent caseload. You will walk away with at least three action steps that you can take. If you're a solo or group owner. This is gonna help you build your practice with confidence in growing your caseload. To register for this event, head to wise practice consulting.com/events and I look forward to seeing you on March 24th.
And don't worry if for some reason you miss it or can't attend live, we will send out the recording as long as you register. So head to wise practice consulting.com/events.
[00:01:24] Jingle: Hi, I am Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice
[00:01:26] Whitney Owens: owner and faith-based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Wanna grow your practice, wanna grow your faith, wanna enjoy your life outside of work, you've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith-based practice while also having a good time.
Now, let's get started.
[00:01:50] Jingle: Where she grows your practice and she don't play. She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:02:09] Whitney Owens: Welcome back to The Wise Practice Podcast. I am so glad that you were here with me today. We are gonna be chatting with my friend Todd Call, who has a multi-location practice set up.
Really excited for you to learn more about his mission, his faith, and why he has created multiple locations in his state. So also though, as many of you know, I started a second location pretty about a year ago. We just celebrated our one year from that second location. So I have learned so much. About the ups and downs of having two locations.
And so we talk a little bit about that in the episode today. So stepping into a second location though, stretched me a lot. Um, it also allowed me to restructure my practice and you're gonna hear Todd also talk about that. So I, a lot of changes operationally, financially, leadership, culture setting. So you're gonna learn a lot from this episode today.
So I'm really excited for this conversation. As you know, we are in a special series this month of March where I'm interviewing members of the Wise Practice community and talking about really cool stuff that they're doing in their practices. So if you missed out, the first one was with Jeremy, where you talked about how to write insurance letters.
And raise rates with insurance companies. So if you are an insurance based practice, you have got to make sure you listen to episode 'cause it actually will help make you money if you do what he said. Um, and then we talked with David in the last episode, David Sanchez, about niching within your practice and how to set that up well.
And then we have this episode today on multi-locations and then the next one will be with Susan. And we're gonna be talking about creating a practice to meet the needs of those in your community. So I'm happy to be sharing with you these cool practices, but also these people that are in the Wise Practice, membership community, I think the world of them, and I love being in relationship with them.
They teach me so much and they're doing really cool things in the world. These conversations that we're having are practical, honest, and grounded, and. They're like you, you know, you can do these things. I think a lot of times we have these dreams, things we wanna do, and we're scared or we're not really sure, or can people really do this?
Here are some people that really have done it, and I want you to learn from their experience. I also wanna tell you about the Wise Practice membership community. And I will talk to, I'm Blue in the face about this 'cause it is one of my favorite things that I get to do. Not only do we have a membership community that we meet online every single week, once a year we meet for the summit and it is a real pleasure to be able to do that.
In fact, all these people that I interviewed in this series were at the summit last year. So fun. Um, so with the Wise Practice community though. This is a really good time to join. So I used to keep the doors open on a consistent basis, but now we are gonna start doing cohorts again because I find that within a cohort you really bond with one another.
And so we will be closing the doors on March 27th. So I'm really pushing people to consider joining the community before them. We will not have the opportunity to join again for months. So let me tell you a little bit about the community, if you haven't heard me talk about it yet. In the community, we will tackle lots of topics, scaling leadership systems, income streams, stewardship and faith, all in the space of community with one another, and growing together with clarity, intentionality.
In acceptance. It's a place where you don't have to figure it all out alone. And Todd will talk about that too in this episode at the very end, where he discusses what it's been like to grow within the community with other faith-based practice centers. And it really is the range of people. We have some people who have never started a practice.
They're just trying to get their feet wet and understanding private practice. Then we have people who have very large group practices and all in between. And you'll be able to find people across the country that you can relate with, connect with, but then also. Meet online with me and I will teach you along with the other consultants within Wise practice all about the nitty gritty of running your practice because it's important to us that you have success not only for yourself and your family, but also for your clients, and we're gonna help you get there.
So make sure that you learn more about the Wise Practice Membership Community that you joined before March 27th. You can head over to the website wise practice consulting.com to learn more. But today I'm joined by Todd Call. We are gonna talk all about multi-locations, so I'm looking forward to jumping into episode 1 77 on how to scale to a multi-location practice.
Hello friends and welcome back to the Wise Practice Podcast. I'm excited to introduce you to my friend Todd Call. He is the co-owner of Triology, a Christian group practice based in. Kalispell Montana. Todd has 29 years experience as a therapist, is now focused on the visionary leadership of people and organizations.
He's married with seven children and seven pets, so please pray for his wife. That's a good bio. Hey, did I spell, did I, Kalispell, is that the name of the town?
[00:07:18] Todd Call: Kalispell? Yep.
[00:07:19] Whitney Owens: Kalispell Montana has so many interesting, like names for towns. So, um, we're gonna cover those today, by the way, but I didn't know you had seven kids.
Where have I been?
[00:07:29] Todd Call: Yeah. Seven kids.
[00:07:31] Whitney Owens: Oh my God. Please
[00:07:31] Todd Call: pray.
[00:07:32] Whitney Owens: You just became, I'm like, wow, this guy is doing all this and seven kids. How old are your kids? What's the range?
[00:07:40] Todd Call: Uh, the youngest is 11, oldest is 22.
[00:07:45] Whitney Owens: Wow. And bar.
[00:07:48] Todd Call: Yeah.
[00:07:48] Whitney Owens: Saying,
[00:07:48] Todd Call: yeah. That's why I keep saying, please pray for my wife 'cause I get to come here and do this.
She has to be at home with them.
[00:07:55] Whitney Owens: Now, did she used to help you in your business or am I making that? No, no.
[00:07:58] Todd Call: She was, she was a, a school teacher for the first four years, and then she just wanted to be a mom. So she's been a stay-at-home mom. We homeschool our kids and it's been great.
[00:08:08] Whitney Owens: Love it, love it. Well, let's go back to when you started Thrive Biology.
So did you always have a partner when you started it?
[00:08:16] Todd Call: Yeah.
[00:08:17] Whitney Owens: Okay.
[00:08:17] Todd Call: So I had moved up to Montana from Phoenix as a, for a clinical director job at a therapeutic boarding school. And that. A bunch of stuff changed. I wound up in private practice and my colleague across the hall, we went to lunch one day and we were lamenting the fact that our practices were full.
We both had waiting lists and we didn't like saying no to people when they called to schedule with us and I said, well, what if we found a way to keep saying yes? And he said, keep talking. I said, what if we hired therapist to work for us? He is like, how would we do that? And that began a year long.
Process of how are we gonna set this thing up? How do we do it? How do we do all the things? And that's how th Triology was born 2017. Okay. And we were co-owners from the beginning. Uh, my first degree was in business, so I ran the business side and he runs the clinical side, and that's how we've done things ever since.
[00:09:15] Whitney Owens: Wow. And so did you merge your two practices into th triology or did you own your separate practices and then have th triology?
[00:09:23] Todd Call: Yeah, so my idea was to put everything under one banner under th triology. And he's like, no, if this thing fails, I still want to have my. Private practice to, to, you know, fall back on.
And so we've both kept our private practices ever since. And, um, and then we have th Triology as well. So we still see clients under our private practices, but we run Triology.
[00:09:46] Whitney Owens: Oh, goodness. Well, it looks like th Triology is gonna make it now.
[00:09:52] Todd Call: I, I think so. We're eight years in and going strong, so
[00:09:56] Whitney Owens: that's great.
Okay. And so you started the practice together. Talk a little bit about how it was with your first location and kind of that experience, especially having a partner. 'cause I think people are always really interested in that.
[00:10:07] Todd Call: Yeah, I lived in Eureka, which is a town up by the border of Canada. I could see Canada from my front porch and yeah.
And so I had an office there in Eureka. Jeffrey was down here in Kalispell. He had an office down here, and that's, that's how we started. Uh, we let our, the first two therapists who work for us, we'll let them use our offices to see clients. Then we talked about. Renting more space and all that kind of stuff.
So it was, it was really shoestring in the beginning. Um, which is good because bad advice from four billers in a row put us in bad positions. And, but we knew Kalispell was needed to be the hub because there was a larger population, all that kind of stuff. So eventually, um, I moved down to Kalispell. We still have the office in Eureka, up by the border.
We have one therapist there. She lives in Eureka, so she's there three days a week. She comes down to Kalispell four day, one day a week. And then, and then all of our other therapists are here in Kalispell, except we now have an office as of last summer in Billings, which is the other side of the state.
[00:11:14] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And I'm guessing maybe different parts of the country are like this, but traveling between cities is more common in certain areas. I mean, does it feel that way? In my Montana?
[00:11:24] Todd Call: Yeah. Sometimes it's a, it's an hour to the next cow, not just the next town. So, uh, we were working with an advertising agency and, and one of the guys, the guy who was in charge of our ad.
Set a 15 minute perimeter around our city, and I'm like, dude, that's like, you know, the next cow. I mean, we, we gotta go like a hundred miles. He's like, what are you talking about? I'm from New Jersey. Everything's within 15 minutes. I'm like, dude, the grocery store's 45 minutes away sometimes. He's like, you are kidding.
So yeah, it's a, there's a million people in the whole state and it's twice the size of Arizona. So it's gigantic. It's nothing to drive. I mean, people will drive an hour, two hours to the next town to work every day. So, I mean, it's not like your typical commute. It's very different and very spread out.
[00:12:18] Whitney Owens: Yeah. All right. E, explain this to me a little better. So you, it's Jeff, what? That Jeff's your partner, right,
[00:12:24] Todd Call: Jeffrey? Yep.
[00:12:25] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Okay, Jeffrey. And so you both had your own offices, but then your th triology. Employees were using those offices.
[00:12:34] Todd Call: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:35] Whitney Owens: Right. Yeah. So technically two separate locations kind of sorta
[00:12:40] Todd Call: in the beginning.
Yeah. And then I moved down here to, to Kalispell and we combined everything, but we still had the Eureka office. And then when I moved down here, we started renting more office space
[00:12:52] Whitney Owens: as
[00:12:52] Todd Call: well. Okay.
[00:12:53] Whitney Owens: Wow. So you kind of had two locations at that point. Kalispell and
[00:12:57] Todd Call: we, we've had two locations from the beginning.
Yeah.
[00:13:00] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Huh. Okay. So what were some of the challenges of having two locations at the beginning?
[00:13:06] Todd Call: Mileage? Um, our, one of our therapists said, I, you know, if I'm gonna be driving back and forth an hour each way. I gotta have mileage. And we said yes, because that was one of our original two therapists. Wow.
And so we started, we, we actually had one in another town. Libby, at one point, we gave her mileage too. So if people lived in these outlying areas, like more than 45 minutes away, we would pay their mileage to come into, to Kalispell and see clients. Um, so it was an added expense. Otherwise, you know, we tried to do all of our meetings with everybody in the same room.
Sometimes we have to video people in the more offices we add, the more locations, the more spread out we become, the more that's gonna be the norm. And the, you know, there's some technology issues there. There's some timing and and teamwork issues there. But other than that, I mean, we're still all in the same room here in the same thing.
So it works.
[00:14:06] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I'm just curious, did you pay them while they traveled or just for the mileage?
[00:14:11] Todd Call: Just the mileage,
[00:14:12] Whitney Owens: yeah. Okay. And so how, how far away again are those two?
[00:14:17] Todd Call: Eureka is 63 miles from our office here in Kalispell.
[00:14:21] Whitney Owens: Okay. Um.
[00:14:23] Todd Call: And then Billings is seven hours away. We just had our annual kickoff meeting January 5th, and our therapist in Billings, he came in the day before he was there, drove home that night.
Uh, well, he drove halfway home. And then the rest of the next day, there's a couple of events a year where we're gonna say no, we want everybody in the same room. And so we're gonna, we paid for his rental car. We paid for his, uh, gas and food and all that kind of stuff. So we're, one of our core values is be generous.
So we're gonna be generous with our, our time, our energy, our, our money. But we're also gonna be generous with our clients and with our employees. Yeah. And so from time to time we, we do those kind of things.
[00:15:04] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So let's kind of talk a little bit about this expansion you've had. You say you were kind of managing with two locations, in essence for a while.
Mm-hmm. And then this kind of dream to dream, right. So, can you talk a little bit about how that came to you and kind of what that plan is?
[00:15:22] Todd Call: So January, 2024, um, we hired a consultant and read the book Traction. Mm-hmm. And that kinda lit a fire under Jeffrey and I in two different ways. One was we didn't realize how we weren't managing our employees.
Hmm. We both said, open door policy, you need help. Come find us. We're available. But that was it. And that wasn't enough. And so we not only started. Changing our leadership style. We started changing the business and putting much more organization into it, uh, behind the scenes, the back office stuff, all of that.
And, and then we started thinking, okay, what's our end goal with this thing? Uh, what, what do we want to accomplish? We also landed on our mission statement, which is helping people thrive, and we said, that's not just a local thing, that's gotta be bigger. And so helping people thrive has become our mantra.
Our core values is how we do everything. And we said, okay, first the state of Montana, then the rest of the country. And so that's, that's kind of where we're going. We don't know exactly what that's gonna look like yet, but we want to be in every major city in, in Montana, which, you know, there's not a lot of those.
There's like five, and you know, one of them is over a hundred thousand people. So you know that, and then going to other states along the way.
[00:16:50] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. And we haven't really overtly talked about this, but can you talk a little bit about the role of your faith within this experience?
[00:17:00] Todd Call: Yeah. Helping people thrive.
We do that through mind, body, and soul. Mm-hmm. And so the, the mind part is counseling the body part that we're building some pieces to, to go with that. Supplements being one of them. And then the soul part, discipleship and working with pastors and missionaries, uh, not only for themselves, but to teach them how to work with people, whether it's their church or their mission field or whatever.
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, one of the things I've noticed is. When somebody comes forward in church and they say they have cancer, the church collapses around that person with every imaginable form of help they could need for the next year or whatever of their life. Somebody else comes forward and says they have depression.
People can't back up fast enough, and that's sad. That's not right. So I have frequent meetings with my pastor at my church, multiple pastors at my church. Uh, I do May is Mental Health Awareness Month. I'm doing a class on attachment this year. I did boundaries last year. We have a heart to reach out to churches, but also the community with everything we can think of as far as giving back and helping people thrive.
When we talk about helping people thrive, that's as many of God's children as possible. That's what that means. And that's everybody. That's not just Christians, that's everybody. Mm-hmm. And so we put effort into that every day and um, God keeps bringing us more and more people, both clients and counselors.
[00:18:27] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Todd Call: Even though we're in a town of a valley of 150,000 people. We always have three or four interns every year. We hire about half of them. It's just, it's what I used to say before we got organized is it's been like this car speeding down the road and we're hanging onto the back bumper, flying down the road.
That's how energetic it has. It has been for eight years.
[00:18:52] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I mean, even sitting here talking to you, I remember when we met and where your practice was, and just hearing your story of everything God's done and the work that you and Jeffrey have done to kinda get where you are now, it's, it's a totally different experience.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:07] Todd Call: It, it is totally different.
[00:19:09] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So how many locations do you have right now?
[00:19:12] Todd Call: Four physical locations.
[00:19:13] Whitney Owens: Great. And
[00:19:15] Todd Call: two of them are here in Kalispell, one in Eureka, one in Billings.
[00:19:18] Whitney Owens: Okay. And how many, uh, therapists do you have at each location?
[00:19:23] Todd Call: The largest one would be here, our main location, Jeffrey and I, and then four therapists.
We have nine therapists total, plus one, uh, mental health coach. So this is, this would be the biggest location. Kalispells always gonna be our headquarters, but then every location we expand to, we want. Three to four in that building. In the, AT Billings, we think eventually will be about as big as Kalispell.
It's the largest county, the largest city in the state. We think it can, it can grow to match Kalispell as well.
[00:19:55] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So what would you say to people listening that are thinking about expansion? Maybe thinking about a second location,
[00:20:04] Todd Call: if it's more than an hour outside your office, if it's more than an hour away.
Marketing's gonna be a whole different ballgame. Um, if people don't know you, if they don't, if you don't have a reputation in that town, if you don't have any touchpoints at all, it's crickets. We've, our office in Billings has been open six months, and he is not full. That that therapist there is is not full.
Jeffrey and I, when we started Triology, it was the overflow from our private practices that fueled the growth. Everything we were doing. We don't live in Billings. We don't have a reputation there. People don't know us there, so it's a whole different, you have to do traditional marketing and it, and that's a whole different bag of cats.
We've never had to market tology at all. We've been word of mouth from the beginning, and we've been full from the beginning. This is the first year. 2025 was the first year we had to do any kind of marketing. In Kalispell, let alone buildings when we opened that office.
Mm-hmm.
[00:21:08] Todd Call: And so we learned all kinds of lessons.
We wrote it all down. And when we open our next foreign office, uh, you know, more than an hour away, I mean, Missoula next year, we're gonna start earlier. And we have a whole string of things to do before that office even opens.
[00:21:25] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Such a good point. Now, I think these are some questions people have, like, does everything flow through the same website?
Location,
[00:21:34] Todd Call: same website, same intake for now. We've talked about distributing intake at some point it's gonna depend on some things, whether we do that or not, but one website and, you know, location pages and all that kind of stuff. Yeah,
[00:21:48] Whitney Owens: I mean, in essence it, it functions as one practice go with different locations and I, I think that's, yeah.
Something people have to kinda like think through what they want that to look like. Even like when I opened my second location, I didn't know what I was doing. You know? And, and maybe you've experienced this, but we would have virtual staff meetings and they were a mess.
[00:22:09] Jingle: Yep.
[00:22:09] Whitney Owens: And I was, in my mind, I was like, I got this.
I know what it's gonna, we're gonna put the camera in this room, the camera webcam in this room. It's like we're all in one room. We're gonna feel the same. And it isn't like that at all. And now we have. Two different staff meetings, you know, um, my therapist did not like it, and they all wanna be together, and I think every practice has its own kind of culture of what the therapists want and what works for you.
[00:22:35] Todd Call: Yeah. We're, we're kind of going through some of the same things. Uh, we have two therapists who video in for our weekly staff or weekly. Supervision meeting, and we've talked, started talking about when we have three, four therapists in each office and in each location, we're going to have to do things differently.
Uh, we do a quarterly training. We've had everybody come in for those. But we've already decided when, when we have three or four people in each location, we're gonna take the trainings to them. Oh
[00:23:04] Whitney Owens: yeah.
[00:23:05] Todd Call: Um, I don't, we do more supervision than most. We do supervision every week. We have two. We have two supervisions every week, one clinical and one developmental.
From what I've learned, a lot of people do 'em once a month, but we do it every week. We'll probably always do that, and then meetings and other things we will do. We'll take it to them and do it that way instead of having everything done by video, because we have to go rub shoulders. We have to go be in the same room with people.
To, to build relationships, to, to establish our core values, to, to make sure we're all doing and running from the same playbook. Yeah. And you know, that's, Jeffrey and I both have the heart of a teacher. That's the way we've always done things, and we'll continue to do that, which means at some point we're gonna be doing a lot of traveling and going to see people and, and making sure they feel a, a part of what's going on at th triology.
[00:23:59] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I do think that's so important, especially therapists. We, we wanna be in person usually. Mm-hmm. Um, that's more into the work we do. We sit with people.
[00:24:08] Todd Call: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:09] Whitney Owens: I wanna go back to something you said much earlier in your early years. You said something about insurance and having some issues at the beginning.
Did I hear that right?
[00:24:19] Todd Call: Oh yeah. So our first couple of billers. Gave us bad advice. We, we started out trying to do it ourself. It wasn't working. We got, I think it was three or four billers and we lost $40,000 our first year.
[00:24:33] Whitney Owens: Oh.
[00:24:33] Todd Call: Uh, but due to their mistakes and bad advice and, and whatever, and eventually we did get, we did find the right person and they were with us for, I don't know, five, six years, something like that.
And it was, once we got into it and figured out how to do it. I can do billing for my private practice. That's easy. When you start doing hundreds of sessions a week, that's a different animal, and when there's a problem, there's usually multiple problems and that takes a lot more time, effort, energy, and focus to solve those problems.
I that it just doesn't happen that way. In a private practice, you have a problem, you have one, and you can put an hour or two into it, and it's solved. It's not that way when you have hundreds of sessions happening every week.
[00:25:20] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Group practice is a whole different ball game.
[00:25:22] Todd Call: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:23] Whitney Owens: So what I hear you saying is when you were solo away, your own billing, um, and then when you became a group practice, you realized, I really need to farm this out.
[00:25:33] Todd Call: Yep. Yeah. And we, we've hired, we, we started with, uh, a contracted biller and then we started hiring. So ever since that, the one that we had for five or six years. They've been an employee with, it's not farmed out to a, a billing agency or anything like that. It's an employee who's part of our culture who has meetings with Jeffrey and I and we're all on the same team.
[00:25:57] Whitney Owens: Yeah. That's great. Is that person part-time or full-time?
[00:26:02] Todd Call: Part-time.
[00:26:03] Whitney Owens: Okay.
[00:26:03] Todd Call: We have four admins. They're all part-time.
[00:26:06] Whitney Owens: Okay. That's great. Um, what other advice would you have for people that are thinking about multiple locations?
[00:26:14] Todd Call: Do your homework. Every location's gonna have its own personality. Um, its own understandings of, of the way to do things.
And that's one of the things we're wrestling with too. How much is run from the home office and how much is run locally. And the further we get from Kalispell, especially when we start going into other states, I mean, you're gonna have these micro. Microcultures in every place that you know, you can't go in and destroy that because people aren't gonna wanna work there.
They're gonna want to have their own microculture and it can still be wrapped up with the same core values and everything like that. But you have to put intention in how you do that. 'cause it's not gonna happen naturally. It's this is gonna happen naturally and you have to, you have to manage that. You have to put effort into, um.
Making sure people are, are running from the same playbook, the same values, but they get to have their own culture. Just like our clients get to have their own personality and their own upset and their own way of dealing with things. That's okay, but we're still both going in the same direction.
[00:27:20] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
Culture is so important. As we've grown to the other location, we used to have a text thread for the practice. Everybody was in it and then. We got the other location and I guess we must have added an employer to, and we realized that the text thread wouldn't get any bigger. I don't, I guess there's a limit to your text items, and so we had to make two different threads, one for each location.
Now the leadership are on each thread, but the employees at each location, so it's been funny over time how. It's like we are moving further and further. Like we have the same values but further away in like how we communicate. And so one, yeah, like I might say one joke to one group in a totally different joke to another group.
Yeah. And so it's interesting how they're kind of creating their own culture. Exactly what you're talking about.
[00:28:04] Todd Call: Well, like here in Montana, the western part of the state and the eastern part of the state are like different states because in here in Kalispell today it's sunny, it's in the forties. And life is good, especially, you know, this late in, in February in Billings it might be 10 below and 60 mile an hour winds, and that's the how different the state is.
Not to mention football, Grizz, Katz, all that kind of stuff.
[00:28:29] Whitney Owens: Oh goodness.
[00:28:29] Todd Call: But, uh, you've got all that stuff happening every day. A couple weeks ago it was like 65 in Billings, and here it was like 15. So you, you, wow. It's all different all over the place. Eastern Montana is, has its own identity. The wind never stops, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Here on, in Western Montana, it's all mountains. It's beautiful. We have glaciers and all that kind of stuff. So it culture's different. People are different. Expectations are different.
[00:28:59] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, we almost have the same weather here today. I'm, it's, it's very windy and in the forties and very low fifties today.
Yes. Everybody's wonder.
[00:29:09] Todd Call: Yeah. That started here last Thursday.
[00:29:12] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Um, well, Todd, you have been a part of the Wise Practice membership community for quite some time, so could you share a little bit about why you chose to be a part of the community?
[00:29:23] Todd Call: So I was looking for something where I could rub shoulders with other CEOs, that group practices, and basically I had like three questions I, I needed to get answered and I couldn't get anybody to gimme an answer.
And you were the first one. And the Wise Practice group was the first place I could have ended my membership after the first. Group session because I got all my questions answered. I was like, okay, I'm good now. But I stuck around and I'm glad I did because now I have this go to group of people that are going through the same things that have similar issues and or they've gone through that issue and they solved it and it's great.
It's, uh, I've become really good friends with several of them and I love it. It's, I call it my go to group because. That's where I get my questions answered. You know, my, my project for this year is sending out the dreaded insurance letter to get them to raise our rate, our reimbursement rates. And I've already talked to two people who've done that or are going through that, and I'm like, okay, that's where I'm going when it's time to do that, because they're either doing it or have done it.
So things like that are invaluable. Mm-hmm. Finding, finding a group of people where, and it's not just. Going to get my questions answered. It's, I can answer questions for other people. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it's, it's Todd, I've been waiting for you to get on here so I can ask you this question.
[00:30:49] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:30:49] Todd Call: So that's good too.
[00:30:51] Whitney Owens: I love that. I mean, a big part of Wise Practice is the accountability groups. Mm-hmm. You know, and you're in a group with people in your similar phase of practice all over the country. And so we're really diligent about putting people in those groups based on their size so they can really bond with people in a similar face of being a CEO and what that's like.
[00:31:10] Todd Call: It's a whole different ball game. That was, that was one of the first lessons going from private practice to running a group practice is employee think versus owner think. And they are two different planets. And I cannot remem, I cannot tell you the number of times in the beginning when I would say what our therapist, our employee did that I wouldn't even think of doing that.
Why did It was, the first two years was an education and a half in managing people.
[00:31:38] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And, and I know you'll agree with me when I say we're constantly learning.
[00:31:44] Todd Call: Oh yeah.
[00:31:44] Whitney Owens: Like no preparation for what might happen. I love it. Okay. And so you have a journal that you wanted to tell all listeners about.
[00:31:52] Todd Call: So when I, before private practice, I worked in, um, therapeutic boarding schools for 16 years.
And one of my experiences in that industry was I was always looking for a tool to accomplish a certain thing. And when you're working with therapeutic boarding schools. Teenagers, but the parents are long distance and you want something to be able to manage and grow that relationship ex, other than the hour a week you have them on the phone.
And so I pulled together several resources of my own and. Wrote a back and forth journal for two people, specifically designed for parent and child, and it's great. People love it. It's called Simply Relate, and it's only on Amazon, so I don't have it anywhere else, but it's really, a lot of people love it.
I even had couples use it. Um, the questions get, they start out really, really superficial and easy, and the further you go, the harder they get. And it's. I really like it.
[00:32:52] Whitney Owens: Yeah. A lot of times we're writing for ourselves anyway. Well, I love it. Um, you've provided so much information today and of course I appreciate knowing you and learning from you myself.
So thank you for being a part of the community and for coming. Yeah.
[00:33:05] Todd Call: Thank you very much. It's been a blast. It's.
[00:33:10] Jingle: So click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:33:28] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Site Craft Podcast Network. A collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives.
To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to site craft network.com. The Wise Practice podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
