WP207 | The Data Every Practice Owner Needs to Know with Jeff Bourque
Watch on YouTube
Running a group practice comes with a constant stream of decisions. Do you need to spend more on marketing? Can you afford to give a therapist a raise? Why are inquiries coming in, but schedules still have openings? When you’re busy supporting your team and serving clients, it’s easy to answer those questions based on how things feel. In this episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, I sat down with Jeff Bourque, creator of Group Practice Dashboards, to talk about how a few meaningful numbers can help you understand what’s happening in your practice and decide what to do next.
Start With Your Client Inquiries
Jeff’s first suggestion is simple: keep all your inquiries in one place. If phone calls are tracked in one system and website contacts are somewhere else, it’s difficult to see how many people are reaching out or how many actually schedule. A spreadsheet can give you a starting point. Track how someone heard about you, where they are in the intake process, and whether they scheduled. You can also include details such as their preferred location or whether they want telehealth. Using dropdown menus helps your team enter information consistently, making it easier to compare results.
Find Out Which Inquiries Turn Into Appointments
Knowing how many inquiries you receive is useful, but knowing which ones become appointments can help you make better marketing decisions. I recently worked with a practice owner who was wondering what to change on her website. One of my first questions was whether people were more likely to schedule after calling, completing a contact form, or booking through the website. She already had intake data that could help answer that question. Looking at those patterns gives you a clearer reason to make a change and helps you understand how prospective clients move through your intake process.
Make Room to Look at What You’ve Been Avoiding
Sometimes we avoid our numbers because we’re overwhelmed. Sometimes we suspect they’ll reveal a problem we don’t have time to fix. I understand that feeling! But leaving a question unanswered can take up mental space, too. You keep wondering whether your marketing is working, whether a therapist needs more referrals, or whether the practice can support another hire. A consistent tracking process gives you something concrete to review. You may still have a decision to make, but you’ll have a clearer picture of the problem you’re trying to solve.
Let the Numbers Challenge Your Assumptions
It’s easy to form an impression of how a therapist is doing based on experience, confidence, or the conversations you have with them. Jeff shared that the data can sometimes tell a different story. A therapist who appears to have a retention problem may actually be losing prospective clients before the first appointment. That calls for a closer look at the handoff and scheduling process. I’ve also been impressed by the retention numbers of associate-level therapists in my own practice. Looking at the numbers helps us ask better questions and support our teams more thoughtfully.
Use the Reports You Already Have
Before building a complicated tracking system, explore what your electronic health record already provides. Reports on attendance, cancellations, no-shows, and client retention may offer useful information you haven’t been reviewing consistently. You also don’t have to collect every number yourself. Your admin team can take responsibility for gathering reports and bringing them to a weekly or biweekly meeting. Your role as the owner is to understand what those reports reveal and decide where your team needs to focus.
Pay Attention to Rebooking
During our conversation, I shared a metric that had recently caught my attention: rebooking. After another practice owner mentioned reviewing her rebooking report, I checked my own and found room for improvement. It raised an important question about whether clients were leaving with their next appointment scheduled. Jeff explained that scheduling processes vary, so comparisons between practices need context. If your numbers seem low, look at how therapists end sessions, how clients schedule follow-ups, and whether your team needs clearer expectations around that process.
Review How Your Cancellation Policy Works in Practice
Having a cancellation policy and consistently following it can be two different things. Jeff tracks the percentage of no-shows and late cancellations that are actually charged. This can help owners see where fees are being waived and whether there’s a pattern worth discussing with the team. As I shared in the episode, those decisions affect more than an individual therapist’s schedule. The practice also supports intake staff, supervisors, office expenses, and other resources that make client care possible. Reviewing this information gives you a starting point for a conversation about consistency and the needs of the whole practice.
Understand What Each Clinician Costs the Practice
Clinician profitability takes more work to calculate because it brings together revenue, payroll, and an appropriate share of overhead. But it can answer questions that a full calendar alone cannot. When a therapist requests a raise or a different compensation arrangement, you need to understand what the practice can sustain. Without that information, it’s easy to make a decision because you want to keep someone happy and discover later that the numbers don’t work. Understanding these costs helps you approach compensation conversations with more clarity.
Bring Your Data Together in a Useful Way
Jeff began creating dashboards in 2023 for his wife Kelly’s practice, Red Therapy Group. Through Group Practice Dashboards, he now helps owners connect information from different systems so they can see their practice more clearly. His dashboards are customized to the questions each owner needs to answer, from inquiry conversion to clinician profitability. They can also help identify clients who haven’t attended recently so the team can follow up. Having that information together makes it easier to spot something that might otherwise go unnoticed.
Use What You Learn to Support Your Mission
One of my favorite takeaways from this conversation is that understanding our data can help us serve our communities. When we see where clients are getting stuck, we can improve the process. When we understand our expenses, we can make decisions that support a sustainable practice. And when we spend less time wondering what’s happening, we have more attention to give to our teams and the people who need us. You don’t have to start by tracking everything. Choose one meaningful metric, create a consistent process, and build from there.
Special Offer
Jeff shares an offer for listeners: $150 off the one-time setup fee for Group Practice Dashboards. To receive the offer, mention Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast in the referral field when scheduling your free consultation.
Meet Jeff Bourque
I began creating dashboards for group practices in 2023, starting with my wife Kelly Bourque’s practice, Red Therapy Group. After tracking our metrics for a few months, she showed our dashboard to some of her group practice owner friends, and I’ve been busy ever since.
I’ve been in the data world since 2016, and I’ve built many corporate-level dashboards for large companies like Sony and HealthTrust who needed to summarize millions of rows of data. This data-wrangling experience coupled with being married to a group practice owner has me uniquely positioned to present group practice owners their data in meaningful ways.
Jeff’s Resources
Links and Resources
Learn More about Wise Practice Consulting
Connect with Wise Practice on Instagram
Connect with Whitney Owens on Facebook
-
[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: Well, join me in welcoming to the podcast Jeff Burke. He began creating dashboards for practice owners in 2023, starting with his wife, Kelly, and her practice, Red Therapy Group. After tracking metrics for several months, she showed the dashboard to some other group owner friends, and they have been busy making dashboards ever since.
That's
[00:00:22] Jeff Bourque : right.
[00:00:23] Whitney Owens: Jeff has been in the data world since 2016. He's built many corporate level dashboards for large companies like Sony and HealthTrust who needed to summarize millions of rows of data. So this data wrangling experience, coupled with being married to a group practice owner, has him uniquely positioned to present group practice owners with their data in meaningful ways.
Jeff, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:00:45] Jeff Bourque : Absolutely. Sorry to interrupt you in the middle of that. I was like that's good. That's enough."
[00:00:50] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I, I always- What do we say anymore? It's always weird when we, like, have some money, read our own bios. We're like, "Is that true?"
[00:00:56] Jeff Bourque : Yeah, sure. You're just kind of, like, sitting back sheepishly, but yes thank you for the introduction and thank you for having me on.
[00:01:03] Whitney Owens: Wonderful, wonderful. Well, tell us just, I always just like to get to know people on a personal level. Yeah. Before we get going, tell us just a little bit about yourself.
[00:01:11] Jeff Bourque : Yeah, so I am a father of three. Um, I've got a senior this year, which is, th- that's our first as a senior and it's- Mm-hmm
not fun to be we're getting all weepy around here. So we also, you heard about Kelly in the introduction, my wife group practice owner, and that, you know, just that experience of being kind of her sounding board since- Mm ... she began the practice in 2019, right? I mean, that's just continuous. So I, you know, I, I've done work directly with the practice as kind of the financial person and the, director of operations off and on and it's been really, really good to see kind of that holistic view of a group practice, uh, by witnessing it and knowing the therapists and all that.
And then, I love to do, like, data stuff on the side, so that's how much of a nerd I am. I'm a big, like, fantasy footballer, so I am really excited about getting into the NFL season and drafting my team this weekend and all that. So, you know, it's, uh- Mm ... it's data all the time for me.
[00:02:19] Whitney Owens: So are you a Titans fan?
[00:02:22] Jeff Bourque : Relatively. When you play fantasy football- Right ... you don't like to choose a team because then you might be a little too m- too, uh, prone to choose bad players in your draft because you like the home team. So that's-
[00:02:35] Whitney Owens: Sure, sure ... that's how I deal with
[00:02:36] Jeff Bourque : that. Well,
[00:02:37] Whitney Owens: um, I love the NFL. Oh, fun.
And not very many people are Atlanta Falcons fans, but I am one. Oh, man. I keep believing- I love it ... that one day we will make it, but, you know.
[00:02:45] Jeff Bourque : Yes.
[00:02:46] Whitney Owens: Someone has to believe. Well, I
[00:02:47] Jeff Bourque : was, I lived in Atlanta in the, in the Dirty Bird, Oh, wow ... era. Yeah. I am from south of Atlanta, uh- Oh, wow ... before I moved to Nashville back in the '90s.
Yep.
[00:02:55] Whitney Owens: Cool. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, I had to laugh when you said, "My wife comes home, tells me all the angles of group practice," 'cause my husband would say that he could pass the counseling exam because of all the things- ... I used to tell him clinically, and now he's like, "I could probably run a business because of all the things my wife has told me."
[00:03:11] Jeff Bourque : Yep, that's right. Mm-hmm. And it's interesting that a lot of the things that I learned about being a business owner from her I'm using now with my dashboard business, and so that, that was a nice little dovetail as well for me just to kinda- have a headstart there. That's
[00:03:25] Whitney Owens: great. That's great.
So, you know, before we got on air, there were so many topics we could have talked about, and I mean- Right ... obviously, if you geek out on data- Yes ... you're gonna be so smart in your verbiage and what you have to offer, you'd be way over my head, right? And so we were just discussing that. Like, how do we take this, right?
Right. This knowledge above- Mm-hmm ... and how do we bring that down? You know- Yes ... how do we not just say, "Hey, here's the data you need to track. Here's all your numbers." Most therapists listening to the show, they kinda know some of that, and if they don't- Sure ... they can go listen to my August series-
[00:03:56] Jeff Bourque : Right
[00:03:56] Whitney Owens: about data tracking. Um, I think that was episode 198. But- What you said, and I just loved it, was how do we take it and kind of make it simple? Yep. What are these easy things that we can tell you? So the great thing is, by listening to this show, you're gonna walk away with something that you can implement.
So why don't we kind of go ahead and get started on what are the ways to really simplify this process?
[00:04:20] Jeff Bourque : Yeah. And you even mentioned it in that episode, the day of the KPI e- episode where it's like, if you're not doing any- I'm just gonna reiterate it.
[00:04:27] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:04:27] Jeff Bourque : If you're not, if you're not tracking, just start with something, right?
And one of the most common things I run into with group practice owners is they don't keep all of their inquiries, their contacts coming, you know, coming in the building from all the different ways in one place. So if you don't have it all in one place, there's really no way to do any kind of analysis on it.
You can't really see how many inquiries you're getting in the building. You can't really see what the conversion rate is because you've got some over here and some over here and some over here. So the, the way to simplify is to try to bring everything into one place as much as possible. So if you're talking about inquiries, I mean, it's as simple as a Google Sheet, right?
You just start with what you wanna track. How did they hear about us? What's their status? Are they, I just responded to them or the intake coordinator just responded to them, or they're kind of pending and, you know, we're going back and forth, or they're closed, we lost them, or they're scheduled, right?
So you've got a status that says, "This is where this inquiry is," and then you just track whatever you need to track. What location are they looking for if you have multiple locations? Is it telehealth? Is it in person? You know, anything that you feel like you want to track, you just add to the spreadsheet column by column.
One row per contact, right?
[00:05:55] Whitney Owens: Uh-huh.
[00:05:55] Jeff Bourque : Um, and then that can be analyzed. I mean, literally you could take that spreadsheet and you could throw it into your chosen AI, right? And it will tell you what your conversion rate is. It will... That, that's as simple as that. So there are things you can do that are that easy in like, 15, 20 minutes.
Set it up, start tracking it, copy and paste whatever you've got from all the different places into your spreadsheet, and then get going with the tracking and keep up with it however your process is, whether you're doing this on your own or you're, you're, you have an intake coordinator and you need to train them to do that.
[00:06:38] Whitney Owens: That's great. Yeah. In fact, your AI will probably make it for you.
[00:06:43] Jeff Bourque : Exactly. You make the spreadsheet, right? Right. You just tell it. That's great. Yep.
[00:06:46] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:46] Jeff Bourque : It's always interesting for me in working with AI that I'm like, "Wait, no, outside the box. Outside the box. You're in the box, Jeff. Keep trying to go outside the box with what AI can do."
[00:06:56] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:56] Jeff Bourque : Um, and that's a good, that's a good point, that it can create it for you, and you can just tell it what columns you need, and it'll, it'll spit it out.
[00:07:04] Whitney Owens: That's great, yeah. It's funny that you said all that 'cause I did a group practice owners retreat last week- Okay ... and one of the gals was like, "What should I do on my website?
Like, how does it look, da, da, da?" And I was like y- you know, it looks like a lot of people are probably filling out a contact form." "Because everything's contact, and it's the form." And I was like, "What I'm curious about is do you convert better through the form, or do you convert better through a phone call?"
Right. And she was like, "I don't know."
[00:07:29] Jeff Bourque : Yes.
[00:07:29] Whitney Owens: And I said, "Where's your intake data?" That's right. She pulled up a spreadsheet, just like you said. We copied it. We put it in AI and said, "What percentage of people are scheduling through the contact form, through a phone call, through scheduling on the website?" Yep.
And it gave us all the information. And I was like, "So this will help you know how to format your website 'cause you wanna-" Yes ... push people, you know. And so it's exactly what you're saying. I just wanted to give a real-life example of how that worked. So that sounded- Let me
[00:07:55] Jeff Bourque : add one thing to it, just-
[00:07:56] Whitney Owens: Oh,
[00:07:56] Jeff Bourque : yeah.
Go ... as you're creating the spreadsheet, from a data perspective, as a data guy, you want as many drop-downs as you can have. Because you wanna have those columns giving you valuable, you know, the same options each time to where you're not just writing in something that means scheduled, but it's actually spelled different or phrased differently.
Because then you can look at everything by, ooh, this was a call that came in, or this is a, you know, they heard about us on social media, not Facebook, not Instagram, whatever, you know. Yes. Social media as a category. Put that in your drop-down so that you can see more clearly when the data is summarized- Mm
where your conversion rate is by whatever you're looking at. Yeah.
[00:08:43] Whitney Owens: All right, so you're, you sound like you might be a little bit like me in the sense that when I get on a call with someone, one of the first things I'm asking about is intakes. I think that's where we start- Yes ... tracking data.
[00:08:52] Jeff Bourque : Absolutely.
[00:08:52] Whitney Owens: And how many times they say, "I have no idea," right?
[00:08:56] Jeff Bourque : Yeah. That's right.
[00:08:58] Whitney Owens: Why? Why are, why are people not doing this? You make it sound simple.
[00:09:04] Jeff Bourque : Yeah. I think that they're not doing it because they're overwhelmed. Yeah. I don't think that I have met a relaxed group practice owner. That's just not a thing.
[00:09:15] Whitney Owens: I'm hiding. Right?
[00:09:15] Jeff Bourque : Right? So, I think I'm sure they're out there. I would honestly say, like, my wife in the last year, she has figured something out, and she is more relaxed about the business than ever. It's great. Um, but I do think that there are... It's just so much going on. And so rather than just take the time to create something like we just talked about, it's the fires.
There's constant fires, constant problem-solving, constant, reacting to whatever's- Yeah ... going on out there. And so, uh, that's more your field as a consultant to be like, "Okay, here's how to make your life not quite as crazy so that you have a little bit of time for these kinds of things."
Um, but again, there are tools that you can use, and we just talked about using AI to create a spreadsheet. It doesn't take a long time. Mm-hmm. And once you set up a simple process like that, it can help you save time in the future because then- Yes ... you're, you have what you need to make the kind of decisions that you need for Google Ads or whatever grassroots marketing campaign you're trying to do because you know that when somebody hears from you, or hears about you from another therapist, your conversion rate is 20%, 30% higher than it would be- Yep
from a Google Ad or whatever. So yeah, it, it is helpful, and it's worth the few minutes that it takes to do something like that.
[00:10:40] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate your perspective on that. And so much about getting this put in place I think is a mindset thing, you know?
[00:10:49] Jeff Bourque : Right. Yes.
[00:10:50] Whitney Owens: So I was sitting there listening to you, thinking about myself or other people I hear.
I think part of it is they don't wanna know, and it's not like a conscious- Mm ... wanna know. It's like I do this sometimes. I'm like- Yep ... I don't wanna know about that thing 'cause then I have to fix it.
[00:11:03] Jeff Bourque : Right,
[00:11:05] Whitney Owens: right. I don't have time to fix it. I just want it to just keep going, but that actually is wasting my money.
[00:11:10] Jeff Bourque : Yes. And over time, I would argue that it wastes your time.
[00:11:14] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:11:15] Jeff Bourque : You know? Because eventually you have to deal with the elephant in the room, it's going to come back and bite you if you don't understand what marketing dollars are working. Like I, I mean, it's going to come back and bite you Totally And, and it's gonna be a waste.
And then if you know whether or not you need to push more in marketing, that's something you need to know as well. Like h- how many inquiries are coming in the door versus how many openings we have in our- Yeah ... you know, schedule. All of that, those are things that I do, to kind of tying those things together.
Uh-huh. Your inquiries and then how much office space you have or, how many, how your therapists are being utilized, all that. But it, all of that together gives you the, the ability to say, "Ooh, I can pinpoint what I need to make a decision on and how to make that decision," rather than the by feel thing, 'cause you know how stressful that is.
If you're going by feel to make decisions, and you're ... I mean, that's what we're just talking about, the reactivity, right? Reacting to fires and then going by feel to make the decisions to put out the fires. It's really just, I mean, it's like a forest fire eventually, right? It's gonna just grow and grow as you're sitting there with your little extinguisher in the backyard, right?
Um, so-
[00:12:34] Whitney Owens: Yeah ...
[00:12:35] Jeff Bourque : it can get out of hand.
[00:12:36] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And I think another thing with that is just the mental space of thinking about the thing. Yeah. And so then- Right ... we don't focus on the things we need to, and if everything just captured the data, we don't have to think about it anymore. It's capturing it. We just have to look at it once a week.
[00:12:51] Jeff Bourque : That's right. That's right. And also I think something that is often overlooked is that you can have a feel for how, say, a therapist is doing, and then when you get the data in front of you and you see what's actually going on, that can really shift your perspective on how a clinician is doing, positively or negatively.
I've seen both, where, you know, some, some group practice owners will a- assume that their higher, leader types, um, are, uh, you know, their more seasoned therapists are making more money for the practice, and you're like, "Mm, that's not happening." Or you have somebody who has a, you know, not a great retention rate or maybe not a great conversion rate for the clients that are sent their way, and you find out this is not about them keeping their clients, it's about there's a gap between when we pass that client over to this therapist and what happens before the first session.
Oh, okay, so the retention rate is good, it's just a conversion rate problem for those that we send their way. So there's just a lot of things that you can, it helps you change your, it helps you know that your perspective is either incorrect or correct by looking at the numbers when you're, especially when you're talking about your therapists and having relationships, you know, that you don't wanna be tainted by just what, how you feel about it, right?
You wanna know what the numbers actually say.
[00:14:15] Whitney Owens: Yes. Helps us definitely make decisions, and you can see my facial expressions.
[00:14:19] Jeff Bourque : Mm-hmm. Right
[00:14:20] Whitney Owens: I can relate to so much of what you're saying. I'm thinking about certain people and their numbers or what I thought they were gonna be. Yes. And, and I've actually been really surprised how great the numbers are with associate level therapists.
[00:14:32] Jeff Bourque : Yeah.
[00:14:32] Whitney Owens: Yep When they first come in, their ability to retain and, and all that, I'm just like, wow. Like, 'cause a lot of people will say, "I don't wanna hire new therapists." Right "They're not gonna do a great job." And I'm like, I mean, maybe they don't have quite the clinical skill of someone for 30 years, but if they're keeping- Mm-hmm
their clients, that says something about the client experience that they're having. Yes, absolutely. And I think that's so, that's so important. All right. Mm-hmm So let's, let's, let's go back a little. We were talking about some simple things. We kinda talked about- Mm-hmm ... the intake process.
What other kind of simple solutions would you give to a therapist?
[00:15:02] Jeff Bourque : Um, I would say that there are other things that you can track just by using whatever you can export from your EHR, right?
[00:15:10] Whitney Owens: Okay.
[00:15:11] Jeff Bourque : So you could do, you know, some retention rate calculations or even basic, like, show rate stuff. And, you know, it, it's just know what your EHR can give you.
I think that's probably the biggest, like, simple thing to do, is just go in there, see what's available, not just like in their dashboard or their reports or whatever, but what can you actually get out, like export data-wise, because then you can do some of the same things that we've already talked about, where you can have AI analyze it for you, and you can see what your show rates and your, cancellations, no-show rates, that sort of thing.
All of that's pretty doable with just the exports from whatever system you're using.
[00:15:56] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah, and I wanna really speak to group owners right now who might be hearing this going, "Oh, this is too much." Like, "I can't, I don't have the time-" Sure ... "to get all that data." Your admin can get all the data for you.
[00:16:07] Jeff Bourque : Absolutely. That's right. That's right.
[00:16:09] Whitney Owens: And so having a meeting like maybe once a week or every other week with the admins responsible for collecting all that, and then presenting it to you.
[00:16:16] Jeff Bourque : Yes. Yeah, and I think that delegation, y- that should be a, the first thought of every group practice owner who is hearing, "Hey, do this."
It's like, "Nope, I'm gonna put this on my list and I'm going to pass it on to the next person." Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:33] Whitney Owens: Yeah. A lot of group owners stink at that.
[00:16:36] Jeff Bourque : I know. Mm-hmm.
[00:16:38] Whitney Owens: That's
[00:16:38] Jeff Bourque : right.
[00:16:39] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, you know, something that came up for me yesterday-- Mm-hmm ... I was in my mastermind group, so I have, uh, some therapists that I meet with, like a peer mastermind.
And one of them said, "I just pulled the rebooking report for my practice." She did it in her EHR. Uh-huh. So
[00:16:53] Jeff Bourque : that's,
[00:16:54] Whitney Owens: you know, clients that are booked for a second session.
And she found about 10% of them were not
[00:17:01] Jeff Bourque : rebooked. Oh.
[00:17:02] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. So I had never really tracked that metric closely. Mm-hmm. I don't think I go look at it very often.
I went and looked at mine, and I'm very embarrassed by what it was. But anyway, I'm curious from you, is, is that a metric that you watch or, okay, and, and what's a normal rebook metric or what should we be shooting for?
[00:17:22] Jeff Bourque : Oh, yeah. I think, honestly, it d- there is a difference between practices because- Mm-hmm
some systems will automatically book in the next section, session or automatically- Sure ... book forward two months as soon as somebody has a, a regular slot. Um, but if you're doing it to where, you know, you have the session and then the next session is booked in that session, or they're going on the portal and they're booking out, you know, a few weeks, that sort of thing, then I would say that honestly, a 90% rebook rate is not terrible, um-
[00:17:53] Whitney Owens: I thought it was good after I saw
[00:17:55] Jeff Bourque : mine.
Yeah. I was like, yeah, I know, right? That's actually, yeah, so they're doing ok- okay with that. But I would say anything that's over I t- ah, I track retention more, and so I don't wanna just throw out a number here for somebody to be like, "Ooh, benchmark. That's where it should be." But if you find that it's somewhere, you know, down in the 50s or something like that, then that's a process change, right?
That's something that where you have to train the therapist to say, "Okay, end of session. Let's get the next one on the books." Um-
[00:18:32] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm ...
[00:18:32] Jeff Bourque : and in that first session, the intake, they're saying, "Go ahead and schedule out, a full month so that you've got your slot, you've got your times that you want," right?
So that's kind of a therapist training thing that may need to happen- ... you know, if it's pretty low. But yes.
[00:18:47] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I kinda looked at all my therapists and what all their rates were and if I had to make a number, 'cause people wanna know-
[00:18:55] Jeff Bourque : Sure ...
[00:18:55] Whitney Owens: I would say 80% or higher is good.
[00:18:58] Jeff Bourque : Gotcha.
Yeah.
[00:18:58] Whitney Owens: Yeah. But, um, that's something I'm definitely gonna start tracking more and maybe make some, uh, parameters with my therapists about. So- Yep ... um, are there any other things, maybe kinda like that, that maybe people aren't really thinking about that you could mention?
[00:19:12] Jeff Bourque : Yeah. I think a, a huge money saver, and one that I do for all of my clients in the dashboards is paid no-shows percent.
So how many no-shows do you have, late cancellations, whatever you call them?
And you've got your policy, 48 hours, 24 hours, whatever it is. How many of those are actually being charged and you're getting the income from those sessions? You can pay for a lot of services with the amount of money that you will save or make because you are putting a firm line on paid no-shows with your therapist.
It's so, so, so easy. We're all nice people. We're all- ... big hearts, right? And so you just want... When somebody calls in the last minute and they've got their big reason that says, "I can't make it to my session today. Can you cancel it for me? I'm gonna," whatever we just wanna give them a freebie, and then another, and then that's a trend and an expectation from the client, and that can really cost the, the practice.
So that's a big one is to be able to track that.
[00:20:23] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that one up. Mm-hmm. And we could have a whole episode on cancellation policies. Yes. But one thing I have to train my team to remember is it's not just about you and your client relationship. Actually, if you don't charge, how do I pay the salary of the intake person who schedules- Ooh, that's good
the clients for you? Yep. Or your supervisor or whatever the case may be. It's like you've gotta understand that we have to meet a budget as a business, and that's- Yep ... everyone's just thinking about their own caseload and what they're doing, and they're not thinking about that. But another interesting metric, I'll be curious if you've seen this to be the case or not.
[00:20:57] Jeff Bourque : Mm-hmm.
[00:20:57] Whitney Owens: We have found that our therapists who have the highest charge for no-show rate- Uh-huh ... are the ones with the best retention.
[00:21:06] Jeff Bourque : Oh, that's interesting. I have not made that correlation, uh, or connection- Mm-hmm ... so I should probably look at that and see if it's true- Well, something to pay attention to
kind of across the practices that I work with. Yeah. That's
[00:21:16] Whitney Owens: good. Yeah, 'cause a lot of the therapists are fearful if I charge for the appointment, this client's not gonna come back. They're not gonna like me- Right ... whatever the case would be, and it actually makes them more bought into therapy and take it more seriously.
[00:21:29] Jeff Bourque : Yeah, and I would say that, um, one of the policies that we have and that Kelly instituted early on in the practice was charging at the beginning of the session.
[00:21:38] Whitney Owens: We do that,
[00:21:39] Jeff Bourque : too. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And that, it's that same kind of thing where, you know, a lot of the therapists who are not as assertive will just be like, "Oh, and payment," you know?
You kinda wanna wait till the end, and then sometimes you forget, and so you try to charge the card after, and then that becomes a problem when it doesn't, go through or whatever and you gotta con- It's just right at the beginning of the session, be assertive, and the clients appreciate it.
Everyone appreciates being, uh... when you're, when you are upfront about the service you're providing-
[00:22:12] Whitney Owens: Yes ...
[00:22:13] Jeff Bourque : how much it costs, and then you just go ahead and take that payment right up front. They don't have to think about it. It's done. Let's focus on whatever it is we're here to do. So-
[00:22:22] Whitney Owens: That's great ...
[00:22:22] Jeff Bourque : yeah, absolutely.
[00:22:24] Whitney Owens: That's great. Yeah, because we were finding that payroll was taking forever because we were having to follow up with- Oh, yeah ... so many clients without cards charged.
[00:22:32] Jeff Bourque : Oh, gosh. Ugh.
[00:22:32] Whitney Owens: It was terrible. Right. And then you're charging somebody a week after their appointment- Yep ... and that's no good for their budgeting.
[00:22:38] Jeff Bourque : Nope.
[00:22:38] Whitney Owens: So, yeah. Yep.
[00:22:39] Jeff Bourque : Shows up on the credit card and they're like, "Wait, what's this?" You know? It's just that double-take moment where-
[00:22:43] Whitney Owens: Yeah ...
[00:22:44] Jeff Bourque : it'd save everybody time if it's snappy. Yeah. That's the way I like to see it. Yeah.
[00:22:47] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Jeff Bourque : Well,
[00:22:49] Whitney Owens: anything else that you wanna make sure to mention that practice owners need to be tracking?
[00:22:54] Jeff Bourque : Well, I mean, there's, there really is a lot, and I know I don't wanna be overwhelming with it, but I think one of the things that is important to know that's actually not as simple is clinician profitability.
[00:23:09] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:23:10] Jeff Bourque : Knowing exact- or at least having an i- an understanding of how much each of your therapists costs you and so that's something that I do with a lot of my clients is figure out who has a profit margin, uh, you know, that's in the negative in your practice.
Why is that the case? So that's, that's a big one. Um, and it-- that's the reason I say it's harder is because it takes data from several different places that kinda have to- Mm-hmm ... be in there. And you have to do something to the data. You have to take your expenses and divide them up so that you know, okay, I'm, I'm applying the right amount to these therapists, to my, you know, each therapist for their overhead expenses at the therapist level per therapist.
Um, and then payroll, you know, wherever you're doing payroll. So it is a bit more difficult to figure that out. Mm-hmm. But I think it's really important. It's something that, again, a lot of what I do W- there are metrics that we needed to know for Red Therapy Group. Yeah. So I just was like, "I n- we gotta figure this out."
And so found a way, and then, kinda figured out how to make it replicable, right? Yeah ... but yeah, it takes a lot of doing to figure that out, but it's so important because what, what do you say when somebody comes into the room and says, "I need a raise, I need," you know, "or a better cut," or whatever it is, and you don't know how much, you know, whether you've got the room to do that?
Mm ... you're kinda doing it on feel, or you wanna keep them, so you've got that people-pleasing thing that comes in, says, "Of course," you know? And then you're making decisions that may not be the best for the practice as a whole. Yeah. So that's, that's a very important one to know. But-
[00:24:55] Whitney Owens: Yeah ...
[00:24:55] Jeff Bourque : I, I deviated from the simple, sorry.
[00:24:58] Whitney Owens: It's okay. That one's tough. I think you're bringing up something really important, and that's where a lot of practices lose money. Um- Yeah ... and a lot of practice owners reach out for consulting because they're exhausted 'cause they're having to see so many clients to make up for how much they're paying people, and it's just this endless- Yes
cycle. So- Yeah ... I'm glad you said it, and I think it needs to be done sooner rather than later for people.
[00:25:16] Jeff Bourque : Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:25:18] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been great. And so tell us about your dashboards.
[00:25:23] Jeff Bourque : Sure. Yeah, and so the, the business that I have is called Group Practice Dashboards. It is exactly what we've been talking about, but I do it for you so that it is simple on your end.
So I take the practice, and we look at it from the very first time somebody reaches out, those inquiries, all the way through to the clinician profitability that we just talked about, and it's all in one place. And you can see all your show rates, all your retention rates, however you want to see retention, however you want to calculate it.
I think the thing that's different about the way I approach dashboards is that I customize everything for you. Not one of my dashboards is the same as another for any of my group practices. Um, and so I'll take the data that you have, whatever systems that you have, and I'll bring all of that data into one place, connect it so that we can see more of those complex metrics, right?
Like the clinician profitability, like how much income per inquiry can you expect, some- you know, those kinds of things. And all you have is just to sign in, you know, in a browser, and it's refreshed for you on a regular basis. So that's what I do, and I really enjoy Probably the thing that I enjoy most in my business is when I am talking about what's possible-
And the clients are like, "What?" We can, we can have a follow-up queue where we can see when a client hasn't come for three weeks, and what their email and phone is so that we can reach out and contact them and make sure that- Oh, cool ... we get them rebooked. You know, those sorts of things, all of that's just if you have the data, it's possible.
So that's, that's how I love to work and those are the reactions that I love to get where it's like, "Oh, man, that's, that's possible. Absolutely. Let's do that." And then as we keep going and I continue with my client relationships, we just expand the dashboard over time. I have clients that I've had for since the beginning, and I'm still adding features as we go.
So it's, it's been a good thing for me to be able to have those long-standing clients, um, and I really enjoy just the personal aspect of that as well.
[00:27:49] Whitney Owens: That's great, yeah. And I think as we sit and kind of reflect, and I think a good way to start thinking about closing is this idea that data allows us to serve our communities.
Yeah. You know, I think we can get really hung up, and especially when we were just talking about money and people are just so into this business mode, it's like thinking about you just saying that metric reminded me of like that helps us reach out to people who are hurting that we wouldn't- Right ... have noticed, and then we can provide more counseling and- Yeah
help our practices grow so that we can serve more people, and that's like what you're doing. You're bringing that empowerment to the table- Yes ... for group practice owners.
[00:28:25] Jeff Bourque : Yes. It's, it's, it's, um, decreasing the frenetic energy of the practice, right?
[00:28:31] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:28:32] Jeff Bourque : It's so that your therapists can serve people more.
Yep.
[00:28:36] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. Now, you've got a special onboarding offer for our podcast listeners- Yes ... right?
[00:28:41] Jeff Bourque : That's right, and so the, the way that I, my business is set up is I have like a one-time setup fee and then an ongoing subscription for my dashboards, and so I'm offering $150 off of the one-time setup fee for anybody who tells me that they came from you and this podcast.
So they can go on the website if somebody's interested. You can set up a free consultation, and it has a little field down there for who told you about me or who referred you. So put it in there, and that's $150 off the one-time setup fee.
[00:29:12] Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Well, thank you, Jeff. This has been so great. I look forward to putting this out for people, and so many important things to be thinking about in serving our practices.
[00:29:21] Jeff Bourque : I really appreciate you having me. Thank you, Whitney.
