WP 89 | When to Use Google Ads with John Sanders
Unlocking the Power of Google Ads for Your Therapy Practice
Running a successful therapy practice involves more than just providing excellent care to your clients; it also requires attracting new clients to keep your business thriving. In today's digital age, effective online marketing strategies can make all the difference. One of the most powerful tools available is Google Ads. Recently, the Wise Practice Podcast hosted John Sanders from Revkey to discuss the nuances and advantages of using Google Ads for therapy practices. Let's dive into some of the key points from their insightful conversation.
Google Ads: A Quick Introduction
If you're new to the world of Google Ads, you're not alone. Whitney Owens, host of the Wise Practice Podcast, admitted, "When I first went into this business, I didn't even really know what a Google ad was." Google Ads are the paid advertisements that appear at the top of search engine results pages, and they can be a game-changer for practice owners.
Why Google Ads for Therapists?
You've probably heard that Google Ads can help attract clients quickly. But how do you know it's the right time to invest in them? According to John, "If you are just starting to try to get a practice going, you don't have, you know, 1000 users coming to your website every month. That's when Google ads is really powerful for newer practices." Unlike SEO strategies that take months to show results, Google Ads can drive traffic to your website almost immediately.
Setting Realistic Budgets
One of the most common questions is how much you should spend on Google Ads. John breaks it down simply: "In general, in the United States, you can generally expect to pay about 4 to 5 dollars a click." He advises practices to start with at least a $500 to $1,000 budget per month, depending on your location. New York City practices might need around $1,000, whereas a practice in a smaller town could get by with $500.
Optimizing for Success
Creating an effective Google Ads campaign involves more than just setting a budget. Your website must also be optimized to ensure that visitors take action once they land on your site. "Making sure that when it comes to that 500 to a thousand dollar budget, is that going to be comfortable for you? Every month to spend, because, you know, once again, it's about getting clients," John says. Ensure your website has dedicated service pages and compelling call-to-actions.
Leveraging Expertise
While it might be tempting to set up Google Ads yourself, both Whitney and John highly recommend hiring an expert. "If you're going to do Google ads, don't just go do it yourself. Like that is such a waste of money and time and hire an expert because y'all know you've done the work," Whitney states. An expert can help you navigate the many complexities and rules associated with Google Ads, ensuring that your money is well-spent.
Combining Google Ads with SEO
A comprehensive marketing strategy often involves both Google Ads and SEO. John explains, "In the long run, you're definitely going to want SEO. Those things definitely work well together. But especially when you're just starting to try to get a practice going, you don't have, you know, 1000 users coming to your website every month." Using both strategies in conjunction can help fill your client roster more quickly and sustainably.
Practical Tips for Insurance vs. Cash Pay Practices
Is your practice insurance-based or cash-pay? Each has unique considerations regarding Google Ads. John advises, "Probably about 60 percent are really on the cash pay side and I think. That's a really good place for cash pay people, because one of the things that we can do within Google Ads is we can set, um, uh, by household incomes who we want to show our ads towards." This ensures that your ads reach the most appropriate audiences, maximizing your return on investment.
Get more Support
Are you ready to take your practice to the next level? Consider incorporating Google Ads into your marketing strategy. Whether you're new to Google Ads or looking to optimize your current campaigns, expert help can provide significant benefits. Just go to Revkey.com and you'll find a contact form and fill that out and we'll get you scheduled for a one-on-one sales meeting.
Show Sponsor
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When to Use Google Ads with John Sanders| WP89
[00:01:12] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant. And I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work?
[00:01:26] Whitney Owens: You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time. Now let's get started.
[00:01:56] Whitney Owens: Today on the wise practice podcast, I have John Sanders, who's an expert in marketing and paid search advertising specifically when it comes to Google ads. He holds an MBA from the university of Texas at Dallas. He enjoys helping businesses generate leads through Google ads that will help their companies grow.
[00:02:13] Whitney Owens: He has partnered with businesses in a range of professions. However, his primary specialization is working with those in the mental health industry to grow their practices. Thanks for coming on the show today.
[00:02:24] John Sanders: Thanks for having me with me.
[00:02:25] Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah. So outside of the bio, I just read if you can kind of tell the audience a little bit more about you as far as personally, where you live a little bit about your family, and then we can kind of jump into the more meat of the episode.
[00:02:38] John Sanders: Yeah, so ultimately, uh, the reason I kind of went down the rabbit hole of doing Google ads specifically for therapists is my wife is a testing psychologist. So I started doing ads for her when she opened her private practice. Okay. And then I started doing some for her friends. And then in 2018, I quit my job doing, um, Google ads for dentists and started doing it for specifically for therapists.
[00:03:04] John Sanders: So, and that's about 80 percent of my clients are, are somewhere in the mental health space. It's either coaches, therapist, testing psychologist, or something along those lines.
[00:03:16] Whitney Owens: Great. Great. And, and John owns Revkey. And how long has Revkey been in the space?
[00:03:22] John Sanders: Uh, started in May, 2018, actually.
[00:03:25] Whitney Owens: Okay.
[00:03:26] John Sanders: So, uh, about six years now.
[00:03:29] Whitney Owens: Congratulations. You made it past the five year mark.
[00:03:32] John Sanders: Yes. And it does seem like a lot of the, the businesses who do kind of things, what I do, And in talking to like, even like, uh, some of your, your, your past guests who, who I also know, it seems like a lot of us all got started in 2018, which is, which I, which I find interesting.
[00:03:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And so just on a personal note, I have worked with rev key on my own practice and found Google ads helpful when I was running my trying to fill up these therapists, but. This is one of the number one questions that I get as a consultant. And when people are doing marketing, it's first of all, where do you put your money?
[00:04:07] Whitney Owens: And then with Google ads, like who's the candidate who's not. So that's kind of what we're going to talk about today. So how can we kind of get started in this conversation about who should invest in Google ads?
[00:04:19] John Sanders: Sure, so I think it's probably breaking it down based off of the different types of practices out there.
[00:04:25] John Sanders: If you are a solo practitioner, and I think this depends on a lot of cases, I'll have people come up to me and they will say, I was able to fill up my solo practice just based off of community referrals and networking. And some people are really good at that. And some people are not, but it's usually I'm able to At kind of the point where you have a number of therapists and you can't do that for, you know, the 2nd, person who who you hire for your practice.
[00:04:56] John Sanders: Um, at some point you, you do need more of a. Of a referral source, and so I think it probably starts at the small group level. Um, you know, we do ads for solo practitioners. We really kind of a 1 time package for that because we recognize that you probably don't want our. You know, us hanging around on your marketing budget every single month.
[00:05:19] John Sanders: So we try to do those as a package. Um. But so when it, when it gets into really kind of group practices is, is probably when you, when you need more Google ads versus being a solo practitioner.
[00:05:34] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:05:35] John Sanders: Yeah. Best place to start is, is, is that that differentiation. And then, you know, as practices grow in size, uh, you also, you know, there's kind of different needs in there.
[00:05:47] John Sanders: The needs of somebody who has, you know, two therapists who are working for them is much different than 20. Um. One of the main places to, to kind of know when it comes to Google Ads is if you are full, you either should probably stop advertising or really minimize your, your spend because you don't want to spend money on leads that are not going to, you know, that you ultimately can't service.
[00:06:15] Whitney Owens: Definitely. Definitely. I'm even realizing now that when I first went into this business, I didn't even really know what a Google ad was. I'd see them pop up when I was on Google. I was like, what does that sponsored mean? So if anyone was like me, can you explain, um, what is a Google ad?
[00:06:33] John Sanders: Sure. Well, yeah, let's go back to basics.
[00:06:35] John Sanders: So if you do any search in Google, um, usually the first two to four. Entries on that search engine results page are going to have something that indicates an ad. This has kind of changed over time. Like, Google constantly is like, playing with what that tag looks like, whether it's a sponsor or ad, what it actually looks like.
[00:06:57] John Sanders: But those are Are paid ads and then usually below that, you might see What we call the map packet might have You know, three or four local companies that do that. One of those will usually actually be a Google ad sponsored map entry. And then below that is your organic entries, which that is covered by the two episodes that you've done with Simplified SEO.
[00:07:24] John Sanders: They know much more about that stuff than I do.
[00:07:27] Whitney Owens: Yeah,
[00:07:27] John Sanders: yeah. And so within the Google Ads engine, You know, that's where we're going to go create a campaign. We're going to do things like pick keywords and the interest of your audience and where your practice is located and, uh, ultimately, um, you'll be able to show up in those, those ads or sponsored entries and then you will essentially pay each time somebody clicks on one of those ads.
[00:07:57] Whitney Owens: Okay, great. So with the, I have so many questions here. So when someone's thinking about where to put my money, how do you help them understand like, Hey, this is a time you might want to do Google ads. And this is a time you might want to do SEO and kind of what's the difference there.
[00:08:13] John Sanders: That's, I think, one of the best questions that we can answer here is the SEO, uh, even simplified SEO is going to tell you this that, you know, that's going to take 3, 6, 9, 12 months in some cases, and a lot of cases you've just hired, you know, your 1st or 2nd or 3rd.
[00:08:32] John Sanders: Person you need clients. Now, the thing is with Google, you can start this. You can start running ads and you can be on Google next week. So it is definitely a faster way in the long run. You're definitely going to want SEO. Those things definitely work well together. But especially when you're just starting to try to get a practice going, you don't have, you know, 1000 users coming to your website every month.
[00:09:00] John Sanders: That's that's when I think Google ads is really powerful for for newer practices for existing older and larger practices. where you're constantly hiring somebody new who has a new specialty. So let's say you're running a practice and then one day you hire somebody who is an EMDR specialist. You've never run EMDR, you don't even have an EMDR page yet, you don't, definitely don't have any SEO around it, is that's when, um, you know, a practice who does that is going to say, okay, can we get a page for that and then run ads for that to try to fill up that new EMDR therapist, for example.
[00:09:41] Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's like, oh, definitely. I like what you just said, because I hadn't thought about that concept of something. I haven't added to the website yet, or I just added it. So my SEO is not up there. You know, yet, so the Google really help ads will help with that.
[00:09:54] John Sanders: Right? Yeah. And I find that also with smaller practices, you know, that they might specialize in, you know, trauma and and then all of a sudden they hire a couple's therapist and they're like, well, we don't have any referrals for couples.
[00:10:05] John Sanders: We don't have anything about couples on our website and that's definitely another place that can really help when you, when you don't have that search engine optimization, or you don't have that referral network going for that specific topic. Yeah.
[00:10:19] Whitney Owens: Yeah, so it actually what I'm also hearing, it sounds helpful maybe to use in conjunction.
[00:10:23] Whitney Owens: So if I want to fill up a therapist, I can work on that slowly. It's kind of the slow game. But if I want to, like, fill them up quickly while I'm working on the SEO, Google ads would be a good option for that.
[00:10:34] John Sanders: Exactly. Yeah, I think that that's a great way to put it.
[00:10:37] Whitney Owens: Okay. Now, I know there's a science behind Google ads because when I worked with y'all, y'all showed me some of it and it was, whew, you got to have an expert.
[00:10:45] Whitney Owens: So I'll 1st say. Um, I'll say this for you, because people expect you to say it, but I will say it for you that. If you're going to do Google ads, don't just go do it yourself. Like that is such a waste of money and time and hire an expert because y'all know you've done the work. And so I would love for you to share more about that.
[00:11:03] Whitney Owens: Like how, how does it all work?
[00:11:08] John Sanders: Sure. So specifically for, I think what you're. Audience is gonna want to do is specifically go into Google Ads and Google's gonna give you a lot of different suggestions, not all of which are going to be great for you, but what you wanna do is focus on search ads that are gonna appear in that search engine results page.
[00:11:29] John Sanders: There are a number of other things that you can do in terms of advertising on YouTube or other websites and things like that that I don't think are necessarily quite right. Specifically in the Christian counseling space, um, one of the things you'll do right now if you go in and try to do Google Ads yourself, uh, is it's going to tell you to run maybe, uh, a new, newer type of ad that they have called Performance Facts.
[00:11:54] John Sanders: Which appears on, it appears in search, it appears in YouTube, it appears in Gmail. The problem with those, specifically if you're trying to run for a Christian counseling practice, is those ads don't really allow you to advertise anything based off of identity, or sexuality, or race, or anything like that.
[00:12:15] John Sanders: Um, performance max is not going to run those ads. Uh, it's really against Google's policies. Um, and so really kind of going into the search side and picking keywords that are going to be appropriate for your practice. And then, you know, ultimately, you know, once we can get those clicks, it's, you know, going over to the website and, you know, making sure that you have good information based on the keywords that we have picked.
[00:12:43] John Sanders: That's where those service pages that everyone like me is going to tell you that you, that you need, um, you've got to have your service page for, um, you know, Couples counseling, trauma, anxiety, depression, Christian counseling, um, depending on how your practice is set up. So you've got to have those pages.
[00:13:05] John Sanders: And then, you know, ultimately, probably the hardest thing to do, and probably one of the major reasons to hire an expert is tracking what is happening on your website is really difficult as usually it's outside of Google ads. And It's not something that can really be automated. This is when somebody calls your phone number, when somebody fills out the form, when somebody, you know, clicks on, you know, Jane app slash simple practice therapy notes, schedulers on your website and being able to, to measure those.
[00:13:40] John Sanders: I actually just had somebody come to me who, he had run his own Google ads for a long time. It done a really good job, but that was the piece he couldn't figure out was, was how to was how to count those forms, how to count clicks on his schedule or, um, and it's very difficult to do. And I really do think is the hardest piece of Google ads.
[00:14:01] John Sanders: And so, um, I've had some, some customers who come to me, who, especially those who have maybe had, like, this is a 2nd career and, like, they started off in marketing or, I have one customer who was like an engineer, like they will figure that those things out and they really have the inclination that they really want to be able to figure those things out.
[00:14:22] John Sanders: But if you are just like a practice owner, you don't have time for this, trying to run Google ads yourself is, you know, you're going to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do it and that's probably time that you should be spending on your practice or seeing clients or, you know, doing supervision and things like that.
[00:14:40] John Sanders: So. That's a very long answer to your, your, your, your question. Sorry about that.
[00:14:45] Whitney Owens: No, you're doing great. Well, you're providing lots of good content. So I love that. And just to, to piggyback on what you just said, when I worked with you at a different marketing director at that time at the practice, but she had done Google ads for healthcare for years, you know, and then she was sitting in the meetings and then she was like, Oh, and like learning, like, and I even remember y'all were like, actually, you did a pretty good job doing it on your own, but there's so much you missed, you know, like so much more.
[00:15:10] Whitney Owens: So like. Yeah, us as therapists, we might think we know a lot, but then you sit in front of an expert and you're like, oh, wait, maybe I don't know as much as I thought I knew.
[00:15:18] John Sanders: Yeah, it's just there, there are so many screens and it's easy to miss like, 1 or 2 little things that could really help optimize your account towards, you know, what your goals are.
[00:15:28] John Sanders: And if you, if you miss 1 or 2 of those things, it can, you know, it can lead to a lot of wasteful ad spend, which is definitely what we, what we want to minimize as much as possible.
[00:15:39] Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. All right. So the question people come to me with is, well, how much money should I spend on this? Right. Do I have the money for this?
[00:15:48] Whitney Owens: Is it worth putting the money into it? So do you have anything to kind of say to help ease worries about that or help people know maybe this isn't the right time or it is the right time and how much money to put in?
[00:16:00] John Sanders: Sure. So I, the first thing, it really depends on the part of the country that you are in because Google ads is competitive with everyone else who's trying to advertise on that keyword in your area.
[00:16:13] John Sanders: And so if you're trying to run ads in Atlanta, Georgia, it's going to be different than if you're trying to run ads in Little Rock or New York City or San Francisco, um, on a search campaign. In general, in the United States, you can generally expect to pay about 4 to 5 a click. If you're in New York City.
[00:16:37] John Sanders: It's probably more like 8 to 10. Same thing holds with California. Um, so if you want to get and what we usually recommend to customers is, you know, let's try to get at least 100 clicks on this campaign in a month, just so we can give our self a chance for success and to gather enough data, um, is to, you know, take that cost per click times 100.
[00:17:00] John Sanders: So, if you're in New York, basically, you should start with a 1000 dollar budget. If you are in a smaller town. In the South, you can probably get away with 500. Here in California, it's got 1, 000. Those are probably the minimum numbers that you're going to want to run for these things.
[00:17:20] Whitney Owens: That's exactly how we did it.
[00:17:21] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:17:22] John Sanders: Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, after that, it's thinking about, uh, and I'll actually, I'll, I'll, I'll give you a return on investment calculator that you can put in your show notes as well. Um, and so it's the idea of, you know, if you get 100 clicks, how many of those people will do something on your website that we want, which goes back to those actions that we talked about earlier, filling out a form.
[00:17:47] John Sanders: Calling you, clicking on your schedule alert, um, and if we can get about, let's say, 6 percent or 6 people in this case to do that, um, that if we take those 6 leads, and if you can get 50 percent of those people or 3 people to become clients, then you think about, you know, what is, you know, what's my average pay rate?
[00:18:11] John Sanders: And how many sessions do people tend to stay around for like, in the calculator, you'll see that I use 18 is just kind of the number I've landed on after working with several 100 therapists over the years. Um, but in some cases, you know, if it's that might only be 8 sessions if it's, you know, long term.
[00:18:32] John Sanders: Um, talk therapy, it, that could be 50 sessions, um, and so you really just kind of have to look at your, your practice and just kind of multiply those numbers together and you will kind of get an idea of what an average client is, is worth. And so it's really making sure. That all of those steps are working.
[00:18:50] John Sanders: So that's where your website comes into play. People are getting to your website. They're spending 25 seconds on your website. They're not reading and they're not doing those conversion actions. Got to fix that part if people are not clicking on your ads need to fix that part. And so there's a lot of different, um, parts to, you know, Google ads.
[00:19:11] John Sanders: There's a lot of different steps that we have to consider when. You know, we're optimizing a campaign and saying, well. People are getting to your website, but then they're not taking the action we want. And then it's trying to figure out why, and just kind of working, you know, working through those different steps.
[00:19:28] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. So it's about the ad itself, but it's also just about what you're doing as a business, you know, your website and, you know, answering the phone, returning calls. Because I think a lot of people will be like, okay, I'm going to do Google ads and they'll put their money into it. And then they don't get back what they put in.
[00:19:44] Whitney Owens: And then they're mad about that. And I'm like, well, Did you take all the calls? Did you answer them or did you get back to people? And they're like, we don't have anybody on staff to do that. And I'm like, well, then you just put all this effort into it and it didn't. You didn't get your result. Cause I'm something on your end.
[00:20:00] John Sanders: Yeah, absolutely. That is, that is definitely an important part. Like after you get that conversion, what happens after that? And, you know, to, to all practices, I would say this has almost nothing to do with Google ads, but I are a virtual assistant. Please answer your phone. Um, that's just going to make your life so much easier.
[00:20:16] John Sanders: Yeah. And if you don't have that, you know, maybe set up, you know, 1 of those auto schedulers, you know, out of your HR or something like Jane app or something along those lines to to be able to handle some of that schedule. I do have practices that don't want to take at all. And, you know, uh, even bigger practices that, you know.
[00:20:37] John Sanders: I'm thinking of 1 in particular in the Chicago area. They have their phone number in like 1 place hidden on their website. They do not want phone calls at all. They just want you to go into into that schedule. So, um. So that is definitely a good point and making sure that you're that you're ready to run those.
[00:20:54] John Sanders: And as far as the website goes, in a lot of cases, people will come to me and say, hey, we would like to run Google ads and I'll say, well, let's not do that right now. First, let's maybe write some content. Let's write those service pages on your website, so when people get there, there's something for them to look at and to, you know, somebody searches couples counseling, let's take them to the couples counseling page where they can go, yes, this is my problem.
[00:21:19] John Sanders: These people understand me. Let me go fill out that form, as opposed to just going to a generic page with, You know, a bullet point for each of the things that you do take that bullet pointed list and then go out and essentially break those out as their own their own pages. Um, and so, in a lot of cases, we'll, we'll write that content for them.
[00:21:38] John Sanders: Um, before we actually even start ads, making sure that it's on there. So our ads actually have a place to go when we start them.
[00:21:49] Whitney Owens: Yeah, I was actually at a conference 2 weeks ago with the state of Georgia for counselors, and there were like, 900 therapists there. It was awesome. Um, and when I was speaking, I was like, hey, how many of you have a page on your website that just has a list of services and you don't have a separate page for each 1?
[00:22:05] Whitney Owens: Almost every hand went up. I was like, what did y'all separate page for each 1 of these?
[00:22:14] John Sanders: Absolutely don't don't don't do that. So.
[00:22:18] Whitney Owens: Okay, and so do you have any advice regarding an insurance based practice or a cash pay practice? Is there anything different thinking about Google ads for either 1 of those?
[00:22:27] John Sanders: Absolutely, I would say, if I look at my clients, probably about 60 percent are really on the cash pay side and I think. That's a really good place for cash pay people, because one of the things that we can do within Google Ads is we can set, um, uh, by household incomes who we want to show our ads towards.
[00:22:49] John Sanders: Um, and so if you're in New York City and you're charging 250 or 300 an hour. You probably only want to target the top 10 percent of household incomes, because those are the people who are going to be able to afford it. Now, in New York City, that's a lot. That's a lot of that population is going to be in that top 10%.
[00:23:08] John Sanders: Um, so that's really the big advantage that that, uh, self pay. Has within within Google apps, you know, if you're running insurance, though, you know, you might just run it towards everyone and maybe take out, you know, do some things to take out unknown. So we can try to prevent bots from from clicking on your ads, which doesn't happen very often.
[00:23:28] John Sanders: But, you know, there's, there's definitely a couple of things that we can do specifically for that. For insurances, you can advertise the names of some specific insurances within Google and not others, because some of them will restrict it based off their trademarks. For instance, I don't think you can advertise Aetna on Google.
[00:23:48] John Sanders: Google will tell you that Aetna has a trademark. They won't do, but whereas I think Blue Cross Blue Shield, you can advertise specifically for, for that. And when I say that it's, um, you can mention their name specifically within your ads. You can advertise for Aetna Therapist, but you're not going to be able to put Aetna Therapist within your, your ads itself.
[00:24:09] John Sanders: Because Google's going to talk about some of those trademark issues. So.
[00:24:15] Whitney Owens: Well, there's a lot of little rules we have to know about, huh?
[00:24:19] John Sanders: Well, that is, that is the thing, is that we're you, you constantly, you know, find these, these little rules. And as Google changes policies, uh, as, as well, uh, you know, I'll definitely have some up swells as Google changes a policy and then all of a sudden, you know, people can't advertise.
[00:24:34] John Sanders: A couple of years ago, Google started, um. Saying a lot of therapy ads have to do with addiction, which wasn't true, which is a restricted topic on Google. And so I had an influx of people saying, well, my Google ads were running fine, but now they're getting all these, you know, addiction errors. And so, you know, trying to help them work through those issues with with Google.
[00:24:55] John Sanders: So they're always doing something new that keeps us on our toes.
[00:25:00] Whitney Owens: That's right. That's right. And I'd rather have somebody else figure all that out,
[00:25:04] John Sanders: right? Yeah. Once again, your job is to run a practice and see clients running around trying to figure out what what Google is doing every every minute is is exhausting.
[00:25:15] John Sanders: So it might be something to lead to somebody like us.
[00:25:19] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, this is helpful. Is there anything else about Google ads? It's important to mention here as people are thinking about if they should do it or not.
[00:25:27] John Sanders: Yeah. I think it's, it goes back to what you said earlier is making sure that your business is set up for that.
[00:25:34] John Sanders: You know, that how are you going to deal with those leads? Is your website in good shape before you start trying to run Google ads and making sure that you, you know, when it comes to that 500 to a thousand dollar budget, is that going to be comfortable for you? Every month to spend, because, you know, once again, it's about getting clients, um, this might come out as an expense on, you know, when you're looking at your expense report, but Google ads is not a desk.
[00:26:01] John Sanders: A desk won't get you clients. Google ads, if done right, will get you clients and get you additional revenue and help fill up, you know, those, you know, those therapists that you're hiring for your group practice in the long run.
[00:26:15] Whitney Owens: Great. Great. This has been super helpful and you've hit the information really quick and easily.
[00:26:20] Whitney Owens: So I really appreciate that. And, uh, John, you know, y'all are going to be at the summit, um, in October. So we're really looking forward to seeing y'all there as one of our sponsors for the wise practice summit in Charlotte. Yeah. So if you're listening and you have not gotten your tickets to the wise practice summit, please get to the website, wisepracticeconsulting.
[00:26:39] Whitney Owens: com. And then you'll get to meet John in person and he can tell you all about these things and about your site specifically.
[00:26:45] John Sanders: Yeah, absolutely. That's one of my favorite things to do at conferences is just be able to, like, go through people's websites and, you know, work with them specifically on, on their practice.
[00:26:55] John Sanders: Uh, it's almost like an, you know, an in person sales call. Um, so I really enjoy getting to do that at shows and helping people out with their practice.
[00:27:04] Whitney Owens: That's great. That's great. Well, is there anything else you you wanted to share with the audience? You said you had a calculator for us that you were going to give to me.
[00:27:12] John Sanders: Yep, I will I'll send you a link and you're going to include that in the show notes and you can actually change numbers in there as, you know, in terms of budget, what you think you're, you know. When you get a lead, like, you know, I put it in 50 percent as a default, but you know, some practices will say, well, ours is only 30%.
[00:27:30] John Sanders: Some will tell me it's 80%. And so that can, that can definitely make a difference in terms of, you know, the return on investment you're going to get.
[00:27:37] Whitney Owens: Great. Well, really looking forward to that and just trying it out myself. Wonderful. If somebody is wanting to work with you guys, what's the best thing for them to do?
[00:27:47] John Sanders: Just go to Revkey. com and you'll, you'll find a contact form and fill that out and we'll get you scheduled for a one on one sales meeting.
[00:27:55] Whitney Owens: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to jump on here and give us all this information. I know this is going to be super helpful for practice owners.
[00:28:02] John Sanders: Yeah. Well, thanks a lot. And I hope to, you know, see everyone in the conference in October.
[00:28:27] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.
[00:28:46] Whitney Owens: com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
