WP96 | Common Communication Pitfalls for Leaders with Roma Williams
In this episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, host Whitney Owens interviews Roma Williams, a seasoned marriage and family therapist and author. They discuss effective communication strategies for leaders, emphasizing clarity, active listening, consistency, and the importance of providing constructive feedback. Roma shares insights from her book, 'Unload It,' and offers practical tips for improving communication within teams. Listeners will gain valuable advice on avoiding common communication pitfalls and fostering a cohesive work environment.
Navigating Leadership Communication: Insights from Roma Williams
In the ever-evolving world of relational therapy, communication stands at the heart of healthy relationships. Roma Williams, a specialist in relational therapy, embarked on an unexpected journey from creating a simple lead magnet to writing a comprehensive book on communication. This journey, marked by personal reflection, client insight, and professional growth, offers valuable lessons not only for those navigating personal relationships but also for leaders striving to build effective communication within their teams.
From Simple Idea to a Complete Guide
What began as a modest five-page ebook to help her clients improve their communication skills quickly evolved into a full-fledged book. Williams shared that her initial intention was to create a small lead magnet addressing the common issue of communication in her practice, which focuses on couples, families, and individuals dealing with relationship challenges. However, as she continued writing, she realized the depth of the topic and expanded it into a more comprehensive guide.
The process wasn’t without challenges. Roma spoke candidly about dealing with imposter syndrome and confronting her own humanity while writing the book. She shared personal stories, including dedicating the book to her maternal grandmother, a Black woman from the South born in the 1930s, and how her experiences shaped their family dynamics and communication. The book became a tool not just for her clients but for anyone looking to improve their communication skills.
Serving Clients Through Insight
One of the key takeaways from Williams’ experience is the importance of serving the needs of clients. As Whitney Owens, the podcast host, noted, clients often provide the best insights into how to serve them effectively. Williams observed that, contrary to popular belief, communication—not finances—was often the top issue in relationship challenges. This realization guided her writing, and she expanded her book’s audience from just couples to include leaders, therapists, families, and individuals, ensuring it could be a valuable resource for anyone seeking to improve their communication skills.
Five Common Communication Pitfalls That Undermine Leadership Effectiveness
Roma Williams also delved into leadership communication, highlighting common communication pitfalls that undermine leadership effectiveness:
Lack of Clarity: Williams emphasized that clear communication is essential for leadership. Without clarity in expectations, goals, and responsibilities, employees may become confused or disconnected from the mission. Leaders must work to clearly articulate their vision, mission, and values to ensure alignment within their team.
Poor Listening Skills: Williams highlighted the importance of active listening in leadership. Leaders often have a lot on their plates, making it easy to become distracted and disengaged during conversations. However, failing to listen effectively can lead to misunderstandings, missed opportunities, and a lack of connection with employees. Williams encouraged leaders to focus on active listening techniques, such as maintaining eye contact, reflecting on what was said, and regulating their own emotions to create a safe and supportive environment for communication.
Avoidance: Many leaders avoid difficult conversations due to fear of confrontation or conflict. However, avoiding these conversations can lead to unresolved issues and, ultimately, a toxic work environment. Williams stressed the importance of addressing challenges head-on and creating an open dialogue to maintain a healthy workplace culture.
Inconsistent Messaging: This can cause significant harm in leadership, eroding trust and creating confusion. Imagine a coworker praising a presentation, but their body language tells a different story—a misalignment that sends a mixed message. This concept applies to leadership as well, where actions and words must align. For instance, if a leader expects punctuality but doesn't model it themselves, they're sending a contradictory message that fosters doubt and undermines their authority.
Ineffective Feedback: Poor feedback and a lack of honesty or transparency are common communication pitfalls in leadership that can have detrimental effects on a team. When feedback is vague, overly critical, or simply not constructive, it becomes impossible for individuals to grow, improve, or perform well. Clarity is crucial, and without it, team members are left floundering, unsure of how to meet expectations or succeed in their roles.
These communication challenges resonate across all fields, but they are particularly significant in leadership roles. Effective communication not only fosters a positive workplace environment but also helps leaders build trust, promote collaboration, and guide their teams toward success.
Looking Ahead: The Impact of Roma Williams’ Work
Roma Williams’ journey from a simple idea to a published author is inspiring. Her dedication to helping others improve their communication skills reflects her commitment to serving her clients and the broader community. Her book, born out of her own experiences and insights, has the potential to transform how people approach communication in their relationships and their professional lives.
For leaders, the lessons from Williams’ journey are invaluable. Clear communication, active listening, and a willingness to address difficult conversations are essential components of effective leadership. By embracing these principles, leaders can create a more connected, engaged, and successful team.
As Williams continues to share her knowledge and expertise, her work will undoubtedly inspire others to take on their own communication challenges, both personally and professionally. Whether you’re a therapist, leader, or simply someone looking to improve your relationships, Williams’ insights provide a powerful tool for growth and transformation.
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Roma Williams’ Resources
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Whitney Owens: Arc Integrated specializes in helping leaders navigate change with confidence. Personalized coaching, leadership training, and strategic planning, Arc Integrated helps clients to reduce stress, enhance communication, and build emotional intelligence within their teams. Clients of Arc Integrated report results such as improved leadership skills, increased team cohesion, enhanced organizational performance, and increased retention of employees.
Head to arcintegrated. com slash coaching to schedule a free leadership consultation. We'll have the chance to receive some tangible strategies to help you drive the success of your practice. That's arcintegrated. com slash coaching. Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all.
Want to grow your practice, want to grow your faith, want to enjoy your life outside of work? You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time. Now, let's get started.
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She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast. Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast.
Whitney Owens: Hey, hey, and thanks for hanging out with me on the last practice podcast. I'm so glad you're here. There are so many shows that you could listen to and you choose to be with me, and it means a lot. So today I interviewed Roma Williams, who is a communication expert, and she recently released her first book, Unload, Unload It, and so you're going to, you're going to hear So I'm really excited to hear from her about her book and about effective communication and really what are some of the problems we have as leaders in our communication style.
So looking forward to you getting to know her. And I just think it's so cool that these people are writing books, you know, I need to, I need to make it happen one day and, uh, it will, I'll just keep interviewing people that have amazing books until then. So, but when I was getting on here to do my intro, I was kind of thinking, huh, what do I want to talk about today?
You know, school started back for my kids. Don't know if you've got littles, but it's something when school starts back, it's the juggle, it's the schedule, it's craziness. My oldest just started sixth grade and I'm just so stinking proud of her. She's going to a new school this year. And so the mommy had the little jitters when I was dropping her off her first day, but she did awesome.
She killed it. She came home. We chatted. It was so much fun. And then my other one started second grade. Thankfully she's at the same school. It's always when they do like a transition to a new school that feels like a lot. What's funny about it is my second grader This is the first time she's been at the same school since pre-K.
So it was nice to have her in the same place, um, seeing that little girl get on the bus with something. But anyway, so I like to think about what's something I can give to you in the intro that would be helpful to you. A lot of times I try to think about a spiritual component or something that I'm excited about, like the summit or a mastermind group or something like that.
But you know, today I thought I'd give you a tip and this tip. Is a biggie. So I'm laughing because I, there's so many things in life that I like put off and put off, cause I think that's going to be too touch time, too difficult. And then I do it and I'm like, what was I complaining about? I spent so much time putting off and worrying about something that if I had just done it, it would have been done.
So that's what this is. When I was flying back from meet you in Kentucky, that's Casey Compton's conference that she does in May. I'm at the airport with David Frank, a friend of mine who is from Turning Point Financial. He will also be at the West Practice Summit What What. So, David Frank is an amazing financial planner for private practice centers.
So, just saying if you're looking for help planning for your future, David Frank's your man. So, Turning Point Financial. But anyway, He's such a nice guy. Y'all just just straight up genuine great guy. And we get to the airport. We shared an Uber because our flights were on the same time. And let me just tell you, I hate sitting at the airport.
I want to sit with a friend. So, we're in the line and he's like, oh, I'm going through the TSA pre check. I'm like, oh, I'm not that classy. And he's like, no, no, it's really not hard to get. Like, it's really easy. And I'm like, please. So, so he seriously gets through that pre check in like two minutes. I must have waited in line for 30 minutes and that sweet man just waits on the other side for me until I get through the line.
And as we're in the line, he's like texting me what TSA pre check is, how you get it done, blah, blah, blah. So I was motivated after standing in that line and feeling shamed, even though he didn't shame me, I felt it myself. I got back and got online with the website he sent me. It took me all of five minutes to get it online and fill the form out.
And then you schedule an appointment at a local place, they have, like, different, like, affiliates and you go in my husband and I did it together because I filled out his form and we scheduled our appointments back to back less than 20 minutes. We were in and out. You show them your ID, do a fingerprint.
You take a picture, answer a couple of questions pay, like, 78 dollars is what I pay. For TSA chicken, y'all, and it's for five years. So for the next five years, I'll be able to go through that line. And your children are under you as long as they're, I think, 12 or younger, could be 13, but something like that.
So now my kids get to fly. And go through the TSA pre check, which is a big deal for me as a special needs mom. Like, of course, I think they should have a whole special needs area at the airport. Maybe even a special needs plane, but I don't think I'm going to get my dream on that. But all that to say is, if you don't have TSA pre check, get it done.
It's not that expensive and it's totally worth it. And I just saved myself lots of time at the airport. Oh, and I just used it for the first time. When I was traveling out to California last week, and when I went through, I didn't have to take off my shoes. I have to take off jackets or cardigans. I didn't have to pull my electronics out of my bag.
It was awesome. So I want to encourage you to get that done if you haven't and that's my tip for today. All right, so we are going to jump into the episode because Roma's going to go through the five, um, common mis, mis ways that we communicate with other people and it's really excellent. So i'm looking forward to sharing that with you and thank you for listening to the show.
If you haven't, please take a minute to write and review when you're finished. So that I can hear about the things you like about the show. I always go in and read those personally. So thanks again. And here let's jump into the episode with Roma.
Hello. And today on the wise practice podcast, I have my good friend, Roma Williams, and I'm so excited to introduce you to her. She's a seasoned marriage and family therapist with over a decade of experience. She's an AA MFT approved supervisor and the owner of unloaded therapy. Which is based out of Houston, Texas, where she provides in person and online sessions for clients in Texas, California, Georgia, and Florida.
She's also the author of the Amazon bestseller, Unloaded, an effective guide to leveling up your communication. Roma, thanks for hanging out with me today. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, Roman, I met years ago, um, doing some consulting together as she was starting and growing her group practice.
And like I always say, it's great to get a group practice going so we can do some awesome things on the side. And so I'm so excited for you writing your new book.
Roma Williams: Yeah. How's that been? Um, it was a journey. It was supposed to just be like a 10 page, maybe 10, like five page lead magnet, if that on communication, um, we specialize in relational therapy.
So couples, families, individuals dealing with relationship issues, and everybody was coming in and talking about communication. So I said, okay, I'm just going to like write this. Like a little lead magnet, little ebook around communication. And it just, it just kept growing. I just kept remembering things to write and just more and more kept coming.
And then I realized it's kind of becoming a thing. So I brought it to a editor and she made me write more and like put stuff in places and create it. Like I really had to create a book and it's a thing. And now it's, It's out and it's a real thing, not just something I've been working on. Um, so I'm, I'm pretty excited about, about it, about having it done, um, and kind of what's, what's next with it.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, well, you are inspiring. I actually recorded another episode earlier today from another author. So you're like the 4th interview in a row of an author that I've actually had on the show, which doesn't always happen. I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, y'all are writing books and look, that's so awesome.
Roma Williams: And it's like.
I just, I don't know, it was, it was such a, an experience, you know, I had to kind of deal with like my own humanity, um, writing in the, writing the book. There's some parts where I kind of like shared about, you know, my own struggles and journey. Um, I really dedicated the book to my maternal grandmother. Um, and just kind of acknowledging her struggles and like, you know, Being a woman that was born in the third, a black woman in the South born in the thirties and how that kind of shaped our family dynamics and how communication plays a huge role in our family.
Um, and so I kind of had to deal with things as I was writing it and kind of, you know, some imposter might've said in a time or two or three. Um, but that's the whole point of the book. The whole point of the book is to really show people like. Hey, this is like a tool. It's a relatable tool. I use it. I still do some of this stuff.
I give it to clients and I've improved my communication. You can too.
Whitney Owens: Oh, I love that. I love the personal part of it, of course. And that's usually what inspires us. And I really love that you shared earlier. You saw clients who had a need, and so you were writing a guide or, you know, even maybe it was going to be a PDF at first and it became a guide and then it became something else.
But. You saw the need and you met a need. You know, I think a lot of people just kind of do things, not thinking about, you know, the needs of the clients really, our clients give us the best information on how to serve them.
Roma Williams: Yeah, for sure. And mine's definitely did. I think there, I don't know. I don't even know where this, you know, the stat of like couples divorce because of finances.
Like I have yet, I'm going to almost say 0%, but I'm just going to say 20%. 20 percent of the time that might be true. 80 percent of the time, that's not true. I'm getting. And even the clients that aren't mine that come to the practice, like communication is going to be top issue. Um, and so I really felt like there was definitely a need and I just, yeah, started just to kind of support the clients that were there at my practice.
Um, and it's turned into something that anybody can use. So I wrote it, um, with all kinds of thoughts and all kinds of people in mind. So not just the lay person who, um, You know, isn't a therapist, but also for the therapist, maybe to use it with the clients, maybe to use it as a leader, um, for the person who's not a therapist, leaders, um, everybody.
I kind of wrote it for everybody. I, I originally started writing it just for couples and then I expanded it. So it really hits on, you know, different dynamics in terms of leadership and relationships and family and interpersonal. And so it really is for anybody. Anybody could pick this up and find some value in it.
So I'm pretty proud of that piece and that it's used as a form of service. And I, I like that.
Whitney Owens: That's awesome. Yeah. Well, like you said, we could go in a lot of different directions on communication today, but we were kind of chatting before the show about faith based practice centers and how can we communicate as leaders?
And so I think it's, it's helpful to kind of look at what are some of the difficulties, maybe, or common mistakes that we see for communicating as leaders and we can kind of walk through those together and provide some value today.
Roma Williams: Yeah. Um, and so being now a leader, I definitely kind of have a special, uh, interest in working with leaders, um, especially around communication.
And so I kind of want to give about maybe five points of some more common. Issues that either I've experienced or I've seen or I've heard colleagues, um, talk about. Um, one of the first ones I want to say with leadership is the lack of clarity. So if I'm not able to communicate, um, my expectations, my goals, responsibilities of the team, the vision, like what this thing, what this business stands for, what we do, why we do it.
If I don't know that as a leader, no one else is going to know. And what's going to happen is Employees and stakeholders and everybody else involved are going to be confused and either not feel connected to it and or we'll just kind of make up their own culture, right? Their own thing within it. Um, and, you know, It probably won't align right with what the leader had in mind, but to not be able to communicate or communicating really vaguely, um, is is one of the one of the top, um, issues with communication and leadership that I would say.
Whitney Owens: That's a good 1st point, and I think it takes a lot of insight to realize that we communicate vaguely.
Roma Williams: Yeah. Yeah, because
Whitney Owens: we think in our head and that I am so bad about that. I think in my head, did I not explain that like, 20 gazillion times, but. You know, it's my head and my team will tell me often, like, Whitney, that's in your head, like, you haven't given it to us.
You haven't said it yet. And I just sent a message earlier and to someone and I said. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I was right. And then I wrote, I think I might be a little vague. Let me know if I am.
Roma Williams: Yeah. Yeah. All the time for me, like, I'm pretty accessible to my team. And so they catch me on the fly all the time.
And so I'm like, Oh, we haven't talked about that. So it's always these things because it's always something, right? These things that we maybe haven't communicated. We haven't had a policy in place for whatever, like this, all these little nuanced things and being a supervisor and supervising students.
This for me has been like a thing. Big, like it's in my face all the time. Um, of like communicating what, all the things, who are we, who we are, what we're doing, why we're doing it. So now I've gotten to the point of like, maybe what may be, some people may consider like over communicating. So I could make sure that I actually communicated clearly and effectively.
Um, and allow for other feedback, other, other, um, things to kind of come up Helps like the next person or helps me to maybe even communicate even further. And the idea of like, you know, mission and vision and values, especially like of us as practice owners and just small businesses in general. That takes a little while, it takes a little working to do, and to be able to effectively say that like a elevator type of, you know, pitch, um, that, Tim, that would probably be one of the, as, as a leader, like for me, Get clear on what you're doing, why you're doing it.
And that would be a really good first start to then the rest of the clarity that kind of needs to come in terms of like direction and who does what and roles and all that kind of stuff. So, um, yeah, clarity is like a biggie. It's a biggie.
Whitney Owens: As you're sharing, I'm thinking about times of Lack of clarity.
And I think a lot of times it's our own stuff, right? There's a reason I'm not being clear for me. A lot of it, when I did my own coaching, actually on communication was me learning that I didn't want to experience rejection.
Roma Williams: Yeah.
Whitney Owens: And you even said something earlier about imposter syndromes. Like we feel like we shouldn't be in leadership.
So then we clearly,
Roma Williams: yeah. I remember telling a coworker, um, what I want to do with my practice and what I want it. How I want the practice to be like what I wanted to how I wanted to stand out and, um, I said that I wanted to start with like a group of relational therapists. So it's preferably like all MFTs if I could get, um, and then a lot of diversity, right?
I was, I was seeing practices where it was this kind of like one way where it was either, you know, all women or, you know, You know, all, um, the sprinkles of people of color here and there people speak sprinkles of, you know, people with different values and different beliefs and orientate all that, all that good stuff.
And I said, I wanted to have a practice of relational therapist. And I wanted to have a diverse staff around me. So however, that looks like in terms of faith, in terms of gender oriented, all the things, I just kind of want it to be like this safe space in the community where you can come get service. And there's somebody that represents some part of you in some type of way that you can be open and honest with about, you know, the set that's kind of really weighing you down.
Yeah. That sounds cute. You know, like, I don't know if you would be able to do that. And I have, I've been able to do that. I've been able to do that and grow it and continue to, you know, bring on more. And it's not even that, um, I think because of my messaging, right. In terms of like, when I post a post of who I'm looking for, who's a good fit for the practice.
I know my vision, mission, value. I know all that stuff. So I'm just attracting people, both clients and clinicians, students. That are aligned. Um, but it took work, it took work to get that clarity. It took work to, um, work through my own stuff of like what I wasn't communicating and why I wasn't. Um, and still, right.
Still working through it. And so yeah, the communication, the clarity piece with leadership is. It's, it's a biggie.
Whitney Owens: Definitely. That's great. I love those examples that you just shared.
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right, so what would be the next one?
Roma Williams: Um, I would say This is a good one. Um, not listening very well. Poor listening skills. Um, so, this happens with leaders a lot and I kind of get it, right? There's a lot to do when we are leaders. Um, and that's why, you know, people like yourself, when you consult with them, they talk about getting people in place that can help you so that you can kind of focus on what is supposed to be the main thing, which is kind of growing and cultivating what you got.
Um, And I know this because I've been doing a million and five things, um, outside of the practice that it's super easy to get distracted and, and like in, in an instant. Um, and so poor listening, not really engaging, um, with whoever is speaking to you, whether that be a client, whether that be a staff member.
Um, leads to a lot of unfortunate things. So misunderstandings, um, Miss opportunities to like gain perspective and gain feedback because. You know, all the things, right? I don't know if you're listening, you're hard to talk to, you're going to, you know, all those types of things, people shy away. And as a supervisor, I like learned that supervisees will shy away quickly if, if not like provided this kind of safe environment.
Um, and then overall just mismanagement, right? Not managing yourself, not managing, um, your, your, your emotions in, in a sense. Um, it could lead to not. Engaging with the employees, not engaging right with with you, with the business, with the mission and vision. Because we're just not as leaders taking the time to really listen.
And engage in meaningful conversations. And I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be like these big drawn out things, but, um, you know, making sure that if somebody, if you give somebody, you know, your ear and say, I'm here to listen that you're able to do that. Um, and so that goes into like active listening and being able to do those steps and skills, um, that let people know that at least they're engaged and they're hearing what I have to say.
May not agree, but at least we could talk about that later. Let's just make sure that we know that we are, can be approachable and that when people come talk to us that we are showing signs that we're listening.
Whitney Owens: That was a really good one. No, it's when you said, I was like, Oh, like, yeah, like, and I can think of so many times where I didn't know how to listen and I've had to really work on that.
And so I love what you're saying there. I love what you just said about. Like, it's not just about showing them you care because they have something important in perspective, which all of that is totally true. The part I hadn't really thought so much about was they're going to stop coming to me. They're going to pull away from me in the mission of the business.
If I don't take time and really pay attention, that's something I've had to work on. It's still something that I struggle with. So I appreciate that perspective.
Roma Williams: Yeah. Um, it's, it's difficult, especially as a leader. It's like, you know, everything kind of falls on you. So there's no, um, unless, you know, you have a big enough team or you're in corporate or however that works, but when people are coming to you, they're looking for you to do something.
Um, and so it can be hard, especially when you're smaller, like many of us in, in private practice, maybe. Um, and so you gotta really like make time. Um, so like for me, I will communicate with my team if it's a certain type of thing. Talk to me on this type of channel. If it's that type of thing, give it to me on this type of channel, because on this type of thing, I'm just acting real fast.
I'm just giving you an immediate answer just to kind of like, make sure you're good. Um, over here is where I could kind of dive in, you know, and talk to you this way. Maybe it's through email or something like that. And then over here where we're kind of live and direct, let's make sure that those components are there.
So when I'm live and direct, especially like in. I really learned this being a supervisor, honestly. So for me as a supervisor, my goal is not to make my supervisees me, little me's. Um, it's to like help them with like unearth whatever's in them to be the best version of themselves. And so I have to do a whole lot of active listening.
So I kind of took that from my experience as a supervisor, which is fun. Um, and kind of really applied it to not just me as a supervisor, because that's a leadership position as well, but then me as a, as a business owner. And so really just making sure that I'm focused, um, not having the distractions. And this is kind of like active listeners for in general, active listening really allows.
Or, um, it means that it communicates. I'm listening. I, I'm here for you. I'm present with you. I'm not just hearing you because I wrote in the book, like listening versus hearing where hearing is more, I'm waiting to respond. I'm, I'm taking apart that little piece that you might have said. Um, And I'm now I'm going to run with it and like defend myself.
So we're hearing might just cut somebody off or like really invalidating, you know, what they said, because we want to prove our point. But with listening and active listening, it's like, it's a whole involvement. So I got to give you eye contact. I got to give you the head knots. I got to give you, um, more physical contact and connection.
Um, and then there's emotional things that kind of go with it too, because I may not want to hear what you got to say. I mean, I, I may not like what you said, like, I don't, maybe I don't, this is just, it just doesn't sit well with me. Right. It just makes me uncomfortable. It hurts my feelings. It upsets me, whatever it is.
So I have to kind of do my own emotional regulation. Um, but. To like accept, be able to accept what someone said, just in the moment, not that I have to agree, but I could just accept that that's that person's truth or that's their experience and give them the space to be able to talk about it. Um, and to, you know, kind of maybe like reflecting, this is a, you know, therapeutic type of thing, like reflecting, you know, what somebody is saying.
So those are the things of like, we need to do when we're trying to display that we're listening and it's an active thing. So that's active listening. Um, and that really will help to compensate for if we're kind of seeing the results of the poor listening skills, get, get more active in it. And, and it will cultivate this culture where people will at least know that they can.
They can say something to you without it being ignored, or otherwise just not acknowledged.
Whitney Owens: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's important. All right, what's our third one there.
Roma Williams: Um, Let's say avoidance avoidance is one. And so this is something that, so leaders are people too, right? So people there, there are many people who don't want to have what they consider to be confrontation, right?
They don't want to have conflict. And so, um, they will shy away and they will not have these more important or difficult conversations. So, um, Unfortunately, that is Um, and so if we're shying away from addressing certain things that may be happening, um, such as maybe conflicts that are arising in the workplace, challenging topics, um, then we're, we're running the risk of cultivating more of a toxic work environment, um, than a healthy, cohesive one.
And so avoiding difficult conversations is something that I see on all fronts. I, I'm sometimes have been guilty of it and I had to kind of like get my own, um, therapy, get my own consultation about it. Um, I see it in couples all the time. Um, and it's really people's attempts to protect whatever that thing is that they're trying to shy away from.
But they, it ends up kind of doing the opposite of, of protecting and keeping it healthy. It actually might lend itself to things kind of, you know, Sleeping through and, and, and things can be more toxic. So that's one of the things in communication with leaders that one of the challenges that come up.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, I've never thought of it like that the way you said it's a way that we're protecting something so I'm going to hold on to that one because I definitely find myself avoiding things actually, sometimes the older I get. I don't know if it's a responsibility thing like I've got too many things to address so I ignore more things or if it's something else but now I'm going to ask myself that question that was a good one.
Roma Williams: Yeah. Yeah, it, it could be all of that. So usually that's what it is. Like we never really go into anything like trying to just like, um, not or not engage is usually some type of, I'm trying to protect something, whatever that thing is, it's usually coming from a decent enough place, but it doesn't always translate that way when we're just not, you know, ignoring things and letting things slide, um, that doesn't work well for leaders.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's great. All right. So what's the yep. Well, I think we're on number four.
Roma Williams: All right. So I would say, um, One of the things with, I would say, not, um, being consistent with messaging. So sending mixed messages, sending contradictory messages. Um, that can do a lot more harm than good. So if you ever think of like, I think in the book, I gave the example of, um, somebody doing a presentation and the coworker coming up to them and saying, Oh, you did great.
But their face is like. Not you did great. Right. So just really misaligned physically. Right. But there's other ways that that can be. Um, but ultimately, you know, like, if I say 1 thing, and then I'm doing something else, or I say 1 thing for this person, and that person doesn't have to add here, whatever that may be.
Um, messaging is, is both spoken and unspoken, right? So sending those mixed messages. If I hold my staff accountable for, you know, starting a session in a session on time, and then they see me not doing that, I'm sending a misman, a mixed message, right? And so, um, it's, it's easy to do, but we got to watch it.
We have to be super mindful of that as leaders, um, because what it does is it creates confusion. It creates, um, hostility and doubt and overall just like erodes the trust. There's this trust starts to like wane away because I don't know. And in like. This is kind of, you know, it's with parents too, right?
You can't tell a kid one thing one day, and then it's something totally different the next there's their like confidence and their stability starts waning away. And that's the same thing that happens to us when we're adults. If, if somebody who I'm looking to for guidance as a leader is. Totally contradicting themselves in any, any and every turn.
Um, I don't have trust in them. I don't have trust in them that they could lead me. I don't have trust in them that they're genuine and they have my best interest at heart. Um, there, there can be a lot of issues that go in that. And once again, oftentimes it is not done intentionally. It's not done from a malicious standpoint.
Um, But it also comes from that lack of clarity. Um, and maybe some other stuff that happens because leaders are people. Um, and so we have to kind of be mindful of, of that when we're, when we're in leadership positions.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking so much of what you're saying. It's like, well, you know, but at the same time, I'm just not we need to be mindful of it.
Roma Williams: Yeah, being mindful
Whitney Owens: of those things that we're. So, it's almost like, I can see these being like, like, the 5 things that I ask myself every day, you know, and throughout the day, like, did I communicate that clearly? Did I avoid this? You know, and. Did I listen to that person? Like this is super helpful, um, for these small things that we really fall short on probably every day.
Roma Williams: Yeah, for sure. It's, it's constant work. And so that's why for my book, I talk about it kind of being this tool. Um, and so in the book, there's like a QR code where, um, person who purchased could scan it and they can be accessed the PDF, the fillable PDF. So they don't have to write in the book, like some of their thoughts.
It can just kind of use that reason, keep the book clean. Cause it's, it's something that like kind of go back to and kind of do some checks and balances and kind of seeing, you know, what, what could I shape up? Right. What's, what's something that I've gotten some feedback on that I could probably shape up.
And so, yeah, this is, it's just constant work, but it's rewarding. It's, it's really rewarding.
Whitney Owens: Sure. Because when you communicate well, you're in good standing relationships.
Roma Williams: Yeah. People trust you. Like when people trust you, you can, you can do a lot. You can do a lot more than when people have no trust and faith in, in who you are as a person and your character.
And that's what tends to happen when we're sending, you know, mixed signals and things like that is, is it becomes a character. The character issue. I mean, people, people don't like that.
Whitney Owens: All right, you got a last one there for us.
Roma Williams: Um, so with that being said, I would say kind of two for one, like not giving effective feedback, um, and not being honest or transparent.
Um, I would say those I'm going to kind of smush those together. Um, that these are common communication pitfalls for leaders. So as a leader, if I am going to. You know, evaluate somebody or let somebody know if something I'm not giving them or attempt to get feedback of any sort, if I am providing feedback that is not constructive, maybe it's more critical than constructive.
Um, or it's just not useful. Cause it is super vague kind of back to the clarity piece. Um, people can't grow. From that people can't develop people can't perform. Well, if that is what's happening. Um, and then also, if you are in leadership and you're not being able to be honest, you're not able to be transparent.
And I don't, you know, that can look different for different people. But overall just withholding information. So if I'm trying to give feedback, for instance, and there's something that's still there that I withholding or, you know, however, that may look that comes across that you can't fake that. Um, and so that just leads to more mistrust.
I don't trust you and your value as this leader that you're proclaiming to be. Um, People start talking, people, people start talking. Um, and that's more mistrust and more rumors and just this, that toxic work environment, right? It just continues to grow. Um, and so I would, I would say that ineffective feedback and the inability or the lack of being honest, um, as leaders, this is not a lot of room for that.
So we got to clean, we got to clean that up.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's so vital. And again, it goes back to what's causing us to not be honest, you know, kind of what you're avoiding. Like, what are we protecting? What are we fearful from and really working on our stuff to be able to communicate more effectively with our team members?
For sure.
Roma Williams: Yeah. And it's, it's even okay and people don't, especially leaders. We don't want to say, I don't know. We don't want to say, let me figure that out and I'll get back to you because it looks like we're not prepared, but that's better. That's better than just arbitrarily throwing something out there or like, you know, shutting down.
Somebody, or, you know, at a thought or idea, um, it's better just to be, you know, I don't know, maybe I got to look this up. I got to come back to it. And people respect that. Um, it may feel at first, but people can respect that more than just kind of doing the thing that makes people feel like you're not, they're not valued and they're not heard.
Whitney Owens: Yeah, definitely. Well, I'll be holding on to some of these questions and it looks like if I get the book, I'll get a lot more more to be growing in, you know, and I just want to continue to emphasize that the book is communication for all levels and all people, you know, even though. We're sitting here as communicators been working on communication as a team leader for a very long time, and I'm still sitting here going.
I need to remember that. So I think the book can really help people at all levels and all different kinds of communication. Um, so thank you, because I see that you gave us a free chapter of the book. Is that correct?
Roma Williams: Yes, yes, yes. I believe this on the barriers of communication. If I am not mistaken, I'm not sure which chapter I gave, but I definitely gave a full chapter.
Um,
Whitney Owens: it says effective communication.
Roma Williams: Let's go with it.
Whitney Owens: Okay,
Roma Williams: great. Um, to kind of give you give you just some perspective, but I picked it because it was something I felt that was common, a common. Um, You know, ask a common question. How do I, what do I, what is this? So I picked that chapter, um, instead of just like the, like first chapter, you know, I wanted to kind of be a little bit more meaningful to kind of dive in.
Um, there's some stuff you can scroll through, I think on Amazon too, kind of like, you know, how it displays that, you know, initial, um, first couple of pages. So. Yeah. I really hope that it, this has been useful and I really hope that, you know, people find use in the book as well. Um, probably going to add some stuff to it.
So if you do download the, um, the freebie, um, and, or buy the book and download the PDF as I add things to it, um, you will have access to it. So I'm excited.
Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Well, if somebody's wanting to get in touch with you after the show, what's the best way for them to reach out to you?
Roma Williams: Yeah. Um, so they can go on our website, unload it, therapy.
com. They can also email me directly. I'm pretty accessible that way. Um, not always the best at returning, uh, over weekends, but, um, my email Roma at unloaded therapy. com. Awesome.
Whitney Owens: Well, Roma, this has been helpful. I've learned so much. I know the audience will too. Your book is excellent. I'm excited for you.
Congrats. And thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your expertise with us. Thank you so much.
Roma Williams: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to share. So
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Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.
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