WP121 | Setting Sustainable and Competitive Pay Rates for Your Group Practice - Podcast Takeover with Amy Dover Featuring Guest Sonja Josselyn
Are you struggling to set fair and sustainable pay rates for your therapists?
In this special Wise Practice Podcast takeover, Amy Dover—licensed marriage and family therapist, group practice owner, and Wise Practice consultant—dives deep into the crucial factors that can make or break your compensation strategy.
From market research to revenue calculations, overhead costs to therapist specialties, Amy breaks down how to create a pay structure that attracts and retains top talent while keeping your practice financially stable. She’ll also reveal why the all-too-common 70/30 contractor split isn’t sustainable and how shifting to a well-balanced W-2 model can transform your practice.
But that’s not all—hear firsthand from Sonja Josselyn, a practice owner who made the leap from 1099 contractors to W-2 employees. She shares how a mastermind experience helped her rework her compensation structure, negotiate better insurance reimbursements, and build a team that aligns with her mission.
If you want to set pay rates with confidence and create a thriving, profitable practice, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in now!
Key factors to consider include:
Market research: Understanding local salary trends through job boards, surveys, and networking.
Revenue per session: Evaluating practice earnings per session, factoring in insurance reimbursements and CPT codes.
Overhead costs: Accounting for rent, utilities, staff salaries, and operational expenses.
Benefits and taxes: Managing employer taxes and potential benefits like health insurance and PTO.
Counselor experience and specialty: Offering competitive pay for specialized skills like EMDR.
Amy outlines three common pay models:
Percentage-based pay: A revenue-sharing model (typically 50-60%) that aligns earnings with productivity.
Hourly pay: Fixed hourly rates for billable and non-billable work, requiring careful tracking.
Salary: A stable income model that may reduce motivation to maintain full caseloads.
She advises against 70/30 contractor splits, emphasizing that a sustainable practice should not exceed 60/40 for contractors or 50/50 for W-2 employees. Transparency in pay structures, clear criteria for raises, and non-monetary benefits like flexible schedules and professional development can enhance workplace satisfaction.
Amy encourages practice owners to seek consulting support for navigating these decisions, ensuring a balance between fair compensation and business profitability.
Making the Shift: From Contractors to Employees
Sonja initially believed that hiring 1099 contractors was the best route for her practice, as she had seen others take this approach. However, after joining a mastermind group, she realized that if she wanted to meet her long-term goals, transitioning to W-2 employees was necessary.
“I wasn’t going to be able to reach the goal that I wanted for this practice without actually having employees,” she shared.
This shift in mindset is common among practice owners who start with a contractor model but later realize that employees offer more stability, control, and alignment with their vision.
Setting Compensation Rates with Confidence
One of the most valuable discussions in the mastermind focused on therapist compensation. Sonja explained that she learned how to calculate what she could afford to pay her employees while still maintaining profitability.
“As an insurance-based practice, I had to go back and calculate my average reimbursement per session, factor in overhead costs, taxes, and then determine a fair compensation rate that still allowed for profit,” she said.
Beyond determining pay rates, the mastermind experience also encouraged her to negotiate better insurance reimbursement rates, further strengthening her financial foundation.
Investing in Growth: A Necessary Leap of Faith
Many new practice owners hesitate to invest in hiring because of financial concerns. Sonja acknowledged this fear but emphasized that growth requires upfront investment.
“You have to invest money to make money,” she stated. “It’s painful, but there’s no other way to get there. You have to make some sacrifices in the beginning.”
By hiring additional therapists and ensuring her practice was structured for sustainable growth, Sonja positioned herself to eventually work less while increasing overall revenue.
Finding the Right Team Members
Hiring is about more than just filling positions—it’s about finding the right people who align with the practice’s mission. Sonja, who runs a Christian-based practice, sought out therapists who not only had the right skills but also shared her values.
“I was looking for someone who was passionate about our vision. The therapist I hired was so excited to join our practice, and that’s exactly the kind of energy I want,” she said.
She credited the mastermind group for guiding her through the hiring process, from posting job openings to conducting interviews and making final selections.
The Value of Community and Mentorship
For those hesitant about investing in masterminds or coaching, Sonja’s experience serves as a testament to their value. She found that being part of a supportive community accelerated her growth in ways she couldn’t have achieved alone.
“This mastermind and the Wise Practice community have pushed me forward in a way I could not have done on my own,” she reflected. “I’ve gained so much knowledge, support, and encouragement. Yes, it was an investment, but I believe God guided me here, and He provides when we follow His direction.”
Final Takeaways
For practice owners looking to scale, Sonja’s journey offers key insights:
Be open to re-evaluating your business model. What works for others may not align with your goals.
Understand your numbers. A sustainable compensation structure is crucial to long-term success.
Invest in growth. Hiring and structuring your business for expansion requires financial commitment.
Hire for fit, not just credentials. Passion and alignment with your vision matter.
Seek support and guidance. A mastermind or coaching group can provide invaluable direction.
Growing a private practice takes patience, persistence, and the willingness to invest in both knowledge and people. As Sonja’s story illustrates, with the right mindset and support, it’s possible to build a thriving business that aligns with your values and long-term goals.
Sonja Josselyn’s Resources
Links and Resources
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work? You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice.
While also having a good time. Now let's get started.
[00:00:29] Jingle: Will she Grows your practice and she don't play. She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast. Whitney Owen and Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:00:48] Amy Dover: Hello friends. I'm Amy Dover, a licensed marriage and family therapist. Group practice owner and WISe practice consultant.
Thanks for hanging out with me today to talk about an important topic. How do you set pay rates for your counselors? Whether you're transitioning from contractors to W 2 employees or starting fresh. This episode will give you some tools to create a fair, competitive, and sustainable pay structure. And I'm also interviewing my friend and colleague, Sonia Jocelyn, about her journey to becoming a group practice owner and determining how to pay her therapists.
So before we jump into the numbers, let's talk about why this matters so much. Your pay structure impacts more than just your bottom line. It's tied to your team's satisfaction, retention, and the quality of care that your practice delivers. If you set your rates too low, you risk losing great talent. Too high, and you could jeopardize your practice's financial stability.
So it's, it's kind of sticky to figure this out. But a well thought out pay structure sends a message to your team. Hey, I value your work, and I want to invest in our long term success together. So let's break down the factors that you need to consider when setting your pay rates. First is the market research.
Start by researching the going right for counselors in your area. You can look at job boards, such as Indeed, Simply Hired. LinkedIn, just to see what the salary rates are that they're offering. Talk to other practice owners. Review surveys from professional organizations. Rates can definitely vary quite a bit depending on location, specialty, and experience level.
Revenue per session. This is something else you'll need to consider. Understand what your practice earns per session. If you're a cash pay practice charging 150 per session, and your therapist sees 20 clients a week, That's 3, 000 in weekly revenue. Pay rates should be proportional to this income, keeping overhead costs in mind.
You also need to dive deeper into your numbers. If you're an insurance based practice, because you'll need to determine what CPT codes you bill more, and then typically what insurance, different insurances pay CPT codes. So something I had to dive into when I was transitioning from contractor to W 2 last year, was how many, which, what CPT codes do I, does my practice tend to bill the most?
And then per insurance, what's the insurance that we typically. You know, bill the most, and then with that too, you know, how much, how much does each insurance pay for each CPT code? And then an example of this is if you're in an insurance, if you're an insurance based practice and you see a lot of families and you bill 90847, The revenue per session is going to be lower than if you bill mostly a 90837 individual code.
So those are just kind of the weeds that you have to get into when you're trying to figure out your revenue per session. If you're an insurance based practice, another key factor to consider is overhead costs. Don't forget to account for expenses like rent, um, or mortgage, utilities, software, administrative staff salaries.
A good rule of thumb is to aim for a 50 to 60 percent margin after paying your employees. This is going to help ensure that your practice remains profitable. Benefits and taxes. If you're hiring W 2 employees, remember that you'll be responsible for employer taxes, and maybe even possibly offering benefits like health insurance, paid time off, holiday pay, or continuing education stipends.
These costs definitely add up, so you'll have to make sure that you factor them into the overall compensation package. The last key thing to consider is counselor experience and specialty. More experienced counselors or those with a, with a specific expertise like trauma focused therapy or EMDR, typically they will want higher rates, so you may have to be prepared to offer competitive pay for more specialized skills.
All right, so after you gather your data, now it's time to decide how you're going to structure your pay. There are three most common models. First one is the percentage based pay. So this is popular in private practice because it ties pay directly to revenue. For example, you might offer a 50 to 60 percent split of session fees.
This works really well for high volume practices, but it can feel limiting if your session rates are lower than the market average, and it can sometimes make your, your employees or your contractors feel like they're not getting as much money as they could. Second one is hourly pay. This model is pretty straightforward.
Therapists earn a fixed hourly rate for both billable and non billable hours, like case notes for team meetings. It provides stability, but it does require you to track time carefully. Non billable hours are usually paid at a much lower rate. This is actually the model that I use in my W 2 practice, and I also developed a formula that the counselors have to follow.
that has a fair ratio of billable hours to non billable hours. I can't let the non billable hours get out of hand. And so I've got this formula in place that must be followed. And anything outside of that formula, my permission has to be given in order for them to be able to bill that non billable hour.
Now some practices, particularly a cash pay practice, they may pay hourly. But they don't necessarily pay for non billable hours, like the, the clinical fee they get, a lot of times the case notes and documentation is tied into that same clinical fee. So that's something else that you can consider just based on what your, how your private practice is structured, whether it's cash pay or insurance based.
Or a hybrid. The third structured pay model is salary. So offering a flat salary can be attracted to counselors who want financial predictability. This model works well if you have a steady client demand and a reliable revenue stream. This can be difficult though because there is less incentive to keep caseloads and schedules full.
Because the therapists know that they're still going to get paid out of all three of these models. This model is my least favorite. I really feel like there's not a lot of incentive in this model to keep a schedule full like with percentage based or hourly pay. If you've got like an afternoon that that tends to fall apart and you've got some time to feel those client spots.
You're going to be more incentivized to fill those spots if you know that your revenue, your hourly pay, is tied directly to how many clients you see. Whereas a salary model, if you're just getting paid a flat, a flat salary, no matter who shows up on your schedule for the day, there's not a lot of incentive to keep your day full.
And so I'm actually looking at making my clinical director or putting her on salary this year and I'm doing my research, making sure that I do it. With all the things, all the things in place that need to be there before I put her on salary. But I'm considering putting her on salary because she has actually been with me nine years and she has worked in private practice for about 15 and she just knows the ins and outs of it like nobody else.
She is, she just kills it. And so I can trust her. She has proven herself trustworthy in that she understands that private practice is a small business and that the numbers matter. And that if we're not seeing clients, we don't get paid. So in a case like this, I'm comfortable doing a salary because she's, she's earned it.
She's proven herself. So that might be something that you want to keep in mind. If you want to do a salary model, you may want to reserve that for people who have worked with you for a little while already, or maybe someone who's own in a leadership position in your practice. Pro tip though, keep this in mind.
Whichever model you choose, be transparent about how pay is calculated and include clear metrics for raises or bonuses. Sometimes this can be a bit tricky for us as practice owners. So an example would be you could tie increases and salary to client retention rates, productivity, or continued education.
This is also just a word of caution. Do not pay a 70 30 split and hire for contractors. A lot of practice owners do this while also blurring the lines between W 2 and 1099s, and this is not a sustainable model. Believe me guys, I've learned this the hard way, as many of you may have known because I've been very open about it.
There's a podcast episode from back in October where I talk about my transition from 1099 to W, because I was just operating as a W 2, but I had the, the business model of a 1099 and I hit a wall where those just did not, they just did not work together anymore. So really being careful about how much you're paying, like the 70, 30.
pay splits or that's a fee split that a lot of online companies are able to do, which is fine for them. But for those of us in a private practice, we can't necessarily offer a split that big. And, and that's okay because we offer something that these online companies can't, you know, a workplace culture that is very supportive and encouraging.
That's also faith based. And a lot of times people are going to be more attracted to that. So keep that in mind. There's still a lot to offer, even if you can't do a 70 30 split. One question I get a lot is, how do I balance fairness with profitability? And the key is really clear communication. That's typically the key in most things.
So be up front with your team about how pay rates are determined and why they're structured the way they are. Therapists will definitely respect you more as a leader and as a practice owner if they understand how their work contributes to the practice's success. Like, it, it kind of comes down to everyone has skin in the game, people become emotionally invested when they understand the why.
And, and you don't have to go into all the nuts and bolts of the numbers and things like that, because we want to have appropriate boundaries around some of those things, but again, understanding the why and, and communicating that clearly. It's good for your team to hear. You can also consider offering non monetary benefits.
Flexible schedules are always something really good in private practice. Professional development opportunities, like if you bring someone in to do a training. And then, again, a supportive work environment. And, and even being faith based. There are a lot of people who are looking for that these days. So when I was planning this episode, I really wanted to give some specific numbers and walk through some examples of pay schedules.
But honestly, it was getting way too cumbersome and lengthy and I'm trying to make sure my time is concise with this. So I'm just gonna leave you with with a quick tip. If you're a contractor practice, never pay more than a 60 40 fee split with you as the owner retaining 40%. And that is because there is lots there, even if you're a contractor, there's still a lot of expenses wrapped up in owning a practice.
And you have to be able to cover those expenses and make a profit. If you're a W 2 practice, never pay more than 50 50 splits. Or you can do the clinical fee model, but because you have other expenses involved, like employer taxes, workers comp, liability insurance, business licenses, and then if you do the other, you know, health insurance and PTO and all those benefits, that can get pretty, that can get pretty pricey.
And so. If you have a W 2 practice, never pay more than a 50 50 split because if you do, you're not going to have a profit margin and it's not going to be sustainable. So I am happy to, to work with folks who are trying to figure out exactly the specifics of what they need to pay. That was very helpful for me when I worked with Whitney, you know, going through the, the, the weeds of, of all the things I needed to know when I was gathering my data about.
price per session and revenue per session and all of that because you just want to be very careful and cautious but also fair as you're setting your therapist pay compensations. So there's a lot to consider when determining therapist pay. I hope I've given you guys some things to consider while you're making this decision.
Remember that the goal is to find a balance that supports your team while keeping your business healthy because your private practice is a business. Also, don't go this alone. Having a consultant that keeps you realistic about this process is so helpful and they can also help you walk through the emotions that always come up around this topic.
So, definitely reach out if consulting would be helpful for you at this time. So, now we're going to jump over to my interview with Sonia.
My guest today is Sonia Jocelyn. Sonia is a licensed professional counselor and the founder of Tell the World Wellness in Canal Winchester, Ohio. Sonia is a passionate follower of Jesus and desires to help people improve spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and relationally. Tell the World Wellness was founded in 2021, and their goal is to help individuals and families address the challenges of their lives.
And find hope and healing. Sonia, welcome to the show.
[00:14:15] Sonja Josselyn: Thank you.
[00:14:15] Amy Dover: Glad to be here. So nice to have you here. So, Sonia, you were part of the Mastermind group that I led last year. It was a wonderful group. And we focused on growing from a solo practice into a group practice. Tell us what your practice was like before joining the mastermind and who you had already hired.
[00:14:38] Sonja Josselyn: So when I joined the mastermind, there was myself full time and I had one part time therapist that was working one day a week.
[00:14:48] Amy Dover: Okay. Were you a 1099 practice or W2? We were 1099. Okay. And then I think during the mastermind group, you decided to make a switch with that.
[00:15:01] Sonja Josselyn: Yes. We switched to a employer W 2 practice.
Yes.
[00:15:06] Amy Dover: Okay. What was your reason for that?
[00:15:08] Sonja Josselyn: After we discussed it a lot in the mastermind about the fact that As an employee, you are, you know, required to follow the vision and the, you know, standards and practices of that practice, you know, and, and that you're not independent at following your own rules and your own ideas of how the practice should be run.
Right. You want, I want my vision fulfilled, whatever vision I had for my practice, I want that fulfilled and by them becoming an actual employee, a W 2 employee, then I can require that the people of, that I hire follow that vision that I have in, in, in my mind and what I feel that God has given me for this practice.
So you were
[00:16:04] Amy Dover: really drawn to the, the ability to. I always say have a little more control over your practice, but that that's not in a negative sense. You want to really be able to drive the values and the standards of your practice. And be able to do that in a way where we really can't with contractors.
[00:16:22] Sonja Josselyn: Correct. That's correct. Yeah. And that really hit home with me because I was going back and forth and originally I, the person who helped me get my practice started had, you know, she does her practice 1099. So I thought that was the best way to do it. But then this mastermind really helped me see it differently and realize, no, I'm not going to be able to reach.
Um, and so I'm not going to be able to reach the goal that I want for this practice without actually being
[00:16:52] Amy Dover: employees. That's good. I had that problem too when I first started to grow from solo to contractor. I just did what everybody else looked like they were doing. Right. It was not aligned with what I wanted and I had to make a shift several years down the road, but you did it the right way.
You did it from the get go. That was good. So, 1 of the things that we talked about in the mastermind, and then that's just a conversation, I think, with a lot of practice owners, group practice owners is. compensation rates for therapists. It can get kind of sticky and there's differences between contractor and W 2 of course.
So how did the mastermind group help you determine how to set your compensation rates?
[00:17:36] Sonja Josselyn: Yeah, we had some great discussion about how you calculate what you can pay based on, you know, how much you're getting in per session, right? And then calculating, you know, what percentage, you know, because, you know, that's, uh, going, because you have to figure in how much you're paying them.
Then, you know, what, uh, are you paying in to the government, right, above that? And then, you know, and then of course your expenses, your overhead, right? You have to figure that all in and really helped me pin down, you know, I w I was able to go back and look at what's the, cause I'm an insurance based practice.
So I had to go back and actually calculate like what's the average amount that I'm getting per session. And then go in and calculate based on that, you know, and the percentage that we talked about, what is the, the amount per hour that I could pay and still make a profit, still pay all my bills and make some profit off of that.
Right. So, you know, that it also, it really helped too, because it helped me see that I needed to push further with negotiating some of my insurance rates too. So it was, it was helpful on both sides of that.
[00:18:52] Amy Dover: That that's good. Yeah, you were able to because at some point you'll max out on how much you can pay your therapist if we don't try to negotiate our contracts and our reimbursement and I'm an insurance based practice as well.
And so I understand the difficulties of dealing with that. But so the mastermind and just being in the community of other practice owners really gave you the room to think about those things to explore that further and then to make decisions that you felt were in alignment with how you wanted your practice to be set up.
Yes, correct. So what advice would you give to someone who is considering growing their practice that is struggling with trying to figure out how to pay their therapist?
[00:19:41] Sonja Josselyn: Well, you, you can't, you have to invest money to make money. Yes. I want to get, you know, my goal, of course, is to grow my practice and make more money so that I don't have to work as hard, right?
You know, so I can't do that. I, in order to grow my practice, sometimes I got to put out some money initially, right? To add these other therapists so that I can create a structure of income. That's going to be bringing in, you know, more profit that, that can, that can be then allow me to do not only maybe to make profit for my personal life, but to, to, to even grow the business more, to, to reach the, reach the goals that I want to reach.
And, and so you have to spend money to get money. I I'd say you can't, is it, is it painful? Yes. But there isn't any other way to get there. You have to make some sacrifices in that hiring. But the fact is, once you, if you set the compensation amount right, then you know you've got a profit margin. And if you know that, as I, like with my practice, getting new clients isn't a huge problem.
I get referrals often. So, if you know you're going to be able to put some, clients on their caseloads, you know, you're going to get a profit. It's just a matter of time. You've got just got to give it time. So patience, it takes patience and making some sacrifice in the beginning.
[00:21:16] Amy Dover: So I know at towards the art, the mastermind ended in December of last year, and you, I think we're, we're getting ready to hire your third therapist.
Well, my 2nd part time therapist. Yes. Okay. So, so tell us, tell us how your practice what you told us earlier that your practice when. Last summer, when the mastermind began, it was you and a part time contractor. And so during the course of the group at the end of last year. You were hiring your second part time W2 employee, correct?
What is, what has that process been like? And how are things going now?
[00:21:56] Sonja Josselyn: They're going very well. I, so while I was in the mastermind, that's when I started getting help with, you know, the pipe, how I should do the hiring process. You know, how I should post the openings, how I should do the, you know, the interviews, you know, the pre screening and the actual interview, how to help you make, I got a lot of good help on, you know, how do you make that decision?
How do you match up the right candidate? And of course, I covered all of it in prayer on top of all of that. And, you know, and so I, you know, I ended up choosing a couple of candidates that, that I liked and sent out offers. And I did hire in December, I hired a part time therapist and I love her. She's, she's wonderful.
So. And I felt too, I felt that the Lord was leading me towards her too, that she was a right fit. You know, I, I've talked, been coached a lot on that, like look for the person that's the right fit for your practice. You know, it's, it's about the person that fits. Your vision, not, not just that they're skilled or just that they're licensed, or, you know, you want them to be passionate about joining your practice.
That was what this particular person I loved about her. She was so excited to join my practice so excited about it. And that's the kind of, you know, Attitude that I want my therapist to have to be excited to join us to be excited about the vision that I have for this practice.
[00:23:31] Amy Dover: I love that. And I agree, just excited to join the practice, but also there's a hunger there to do the work and a humility as well.
But there's, there's really good, um, author and leadership and team building Pat Linceone. And he talks about that like the perfect team member is. Hungry, humble, and oh, there's one more H word I can't remember, but hungry and humble. That's always what I'm looking forward to and eager to do the work. And before we, before we hit record on our talk today, we were, you and I were talking about something that you brought up in Mastermind last year about just sort of your philosophy about bringing people on into private practice.
And, you know, so share that with our listeners, because I think it's so good.
[00:24:21] Sonja Josselyn: Yeah, I, my background is I came out of community mental health and I know the stress of working in community mental health, just very stressful days of traveling from one page, one client's home to another and, and then having to spend.
Hours in the evening, sometimes doing notes. And so to me, coming into private practice was like a gift. A wonderful gift. And the pay was so much better. Like I was not being paid well in, in community mental health after, you know, all the, the effort and money spent on getting a master's degree, you know, and, and so coming into it again was just such a gift to be in private practice.
And so I feel like. You know, for them also, it should feel like a gift to come into that, not only an atmosphere, right, where, you know, they don't have those kinds of stresses of community mental health, but, you know, but also that they're going to be paid better and also that they're going to be in a Christian environment, that this is a Christian agency.
They can be free, feel free that if the is a Christian and wants that involved in their in their therapy that you can provide prayer, you can provide scripture, you can minister to them in addition to being a therapist to them. And that is appealing to people. They, uh, some tell me, you know, that's what they're looking for.
You know, I, I want that. I want to involve my faith. I feel that I can be so much more effective if I can bring my Faith into my practice. So, um, there's so much that we do offer. And, you know, sometimes it's not about just the money. Sometimes it's about doing what we love to do because we're people help, helpers at heart.
This is the reason we came into this field. It isn't really about money. It was more about our heart, which was to help people. So if our hearts to help people, then we're going to be passionate about doing that and not totally, you know, just focused on the money.
[00:26:38] Amy Dover: Watching you, of course, our listeners are listening, just listening to this.
They can't see our faces, but watching you for the last couple of minutes as you said that, just your whole face lit up, moving around in your seat is obviously very passionate about that.
[00:26:55] Jingle: Yes.
[00:26:57] Amy Dover: I think that private practice, I think it's such a privilege to do because I always say like. I really enjoy hiring more seasoned clinicians for my practice.
I've spent a lot of time training associates in my practice because I've been open for 10 years. I've had a lot of interns, but I've kind of shifted my mindset the last few months of. I really want to kind of focus on having more seasoned clinicians come in with more specific skill sets. I can meet some needs in our community.
I've come off of quite a few insurance panels and really kind of had a more specific insurance strategy to the practice and, and, you know, and I agree with you, it's a privilege to be here to do the work and particularly in private practice. And I want people who recognize that and who want to be here.
They're hungry. They want to, they're humble. They're eager. They want to serve their fellow man. They love the Lord. Really important to me too. And so hearing you talk about that and just again, kind of watching your face light up, that was obviously very passionate for you.
[00:28:07] Sonja Josselyn: Yes, it is. Well, I wouldn't be doing this unless I was passionate about it.
This is still a lot of work.
[00:28:14] Amy Dover: A lot of work. Yes. So Sonia, for someone who's worried about finances, what advice would you give if they say they were unable to afford a mastermind group or, or even consulting in general?
[00:28:29] Sonja Josselyn: Yes, it's a very good question. And we do struggle, you know, as business owners, new business owners trying to, you know, face all the expenses that we have and try to manage that plus growing.
But I will say that this. Mastermind group plus just being involved in the wise practice community has really, really pushed me forward in a way that I could not have done on my own. It absolutely couldn't have. And I felt still feel to this day that was all God ordained that I would be part of this mastermind and a part of this community because it's grown me so much and brought Some people into my life that weren't there before so much information and help and I couldn't be growing like I am and and I plan to stay in that mode of growth and to continue getting the help and it really just.
You know, made that happen that I had reached out and in other ways to some other business mentoring people in my local area who are even Christian, but they couldn't help me in the way that this organization could help me. And it was just, again, it was just a God send for me. And yes, it was a lot of money for me.
You have to put out that felt like a big ouch, but then I felt like, you know, God is really pushing me this direction. And if he says I can do it, I can do it. I love that.
[00:30:05] Amy Dover: Yes. If that's what he wants you to do, then he's going to bless it. Right. Exactly. Where God guides, he provides. That's exactly right.
And I have to say too, you were one who. Like, you asked questions between our live group meetings, you were emailing, you know, you were sending messages through Voxer, you were in the Wise Practice meetings on Wednesdays, you were utilizing the information in Circle and the, in the paperwork section, and I think there were a couple competitions that Whitney put out, and you won both of them, so.
I won twice, yes. During the mastermind and obviously you're still killing it. So any, any last thoughts or comments that you think would be helpful for people who are listening in today? Anything else you want to share?
[00:30:53] Sonja Josselyn: I think just again that you feel that God has led you to build your practice, then you need to be brave enough to move forward with whatever vision God has given you, because you can do it.
You can do it.
[00:31:13] Amy Dover: Well said. Thank you for that. So, Sonia, how can people get in touch with you?
[00:31:20] Sonja Josselyn: So I have a website, telltheworldwellness. org, and you can contact me obviously on Circle or Voxer. So I'm on all, all those platforms, so you can certainly contact me in any of those ways.
[00:31:37] Amy Dover: Perfect. I would ask you what your email is, but you're like most of us and you have a hard time checking it.
So I won't, I won't. Yes. Well, thank you for being with us today. I appreciate it. Yep. You're welcome. My privilege. So friends, are you ready to start a group counseling practice? If the answer is yes, consider signing up for my mastermind group that begins in March. It's limited to only 10 participants. Head over to www.
WisePracticeConsulting. com backslash masterminds and check out the information. My bio is also there. Feel free to email me at amy at WisePracticeConsulting. com if you have any questions or if you want to jump on a call for more information. WisePractice members receive 100 off of membership the mastermind group each month.
That is a great savings. Guys, thanks for tuning in and God bless. See you in the next episode. So
[00:32:37] Jingle: click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast. Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:32:55] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Sitecraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.
com. The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
