WP102 | Faithful Hiring: Choosing the Right Therapist for Your Practice - Podcast Takeover with Amy Dover
In this episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, Amy Dover takes over to share her wisdom on faithful hiring—a crucial topic for faith-based practice owners. Amy, a seasoned group practice owner and faith-based consultant, dives deep into how aligning your hiring process with your faith can lead to long-term success. Whether you’re considering hiring only believers or are open to non-believers who respect your values, Amy offers invaluable guidance on making ethical decisions rooted in faith.
With practical steps like creating faith-centered job descriptions, incorporating prayer into the hiring process, and asking the right interview questions, Amy provides actionable advice that can help you build a cohesive, values-driven team. She also shares a personal story of a time she failed to seek God’s guidance in a hiring decision and the lessons she learned from that experience.
The Role of Faith in the Hiring Process
Amy emphasizes that for faith-based practice owners, faith should be at the forefront of every business decision, including hiring. She believes that God blesses ethical business decisions and that aligning your practice with your faith creates a foundation for success. Faith-based hiring isn’t just about finding the most qualified candidate; it’s about finding therapists who share or respect your faith values.
Some practice owners may choose only to hire believers, while others may be open to hiring non-believers. For Amy, the key is respect. Even if a therapist does not share the same faith, they must respect its importance in the practice. Amy shares her personal experience of managing a team of both believers and non-believers and how it created a dynamic where faith remained central while respecting differing beliefs.
Amy also stresses the importance of seeking God’s guidance in every hiring decision. From praying for wisdom and discernment to trusting God’s timing, she encourages practice owners to be intentional in inviting God into their hiring process.
Practical Steps for Faith-Based Hiring
Faithful hiring is not just a spiritual exercise; it involves practical steps to ensure that faith remains central throughout the process. Amy offers several actionable tips:
Design Faith-Centered Job Descriptions: Make sure that your job descriptions reflect the faith-based mission of your practice. This sets clear expectations for potential candidates about the role faith plays in your business.
Ask Faith-Focused Interview Questions: During the interview process, ask questions that help gauge alignment with your faith values. This helps to ensure that new hires will be a good cultural fit for your practice, regardless of their religious beliefs.
Involve Prayer in Every Step: From screening resumes to conducting final interviews, incorporating prayer into each step of the hiring process invites divine guidance and ensures that God’s wisdom leads the decision-making.
Amy also highlights the importance of patience. It can be tempting to rush the hiring process, but she advises practice owners to be slow to hire so that they don’t have to be quick to fire. Patience allows time for discernment and ensures that the right people join your team at the right time.
Lessons Learned from Experience
Amy shares a cautionary tale from her own experience when she failed to seek God’s guidance in a hiring decision. She hired a psychologist for her team without praying about it, simply assuming that the opportunity was divinely orchestrated. Unfortunately, the hire turned out to be a poor fit, leading to a difficult, though professional, separation. This experience reinforced the importance of praying over every decision, no matter how perfect an opportunity might seem.
She learned that skipping the spiritual step of seeking God’s clarity and discernment can lead to challenging situations. However, even in difficult circumstances, Amy emphasizes the importance of maintaining professionalism and keeping relationships intact, as they can still be valuable connections in the future.
Conclusion: Trusting God’s Process
Amy’s key takeaway for faith-based practice owners is to trust God’s process and not rush ahead. She acknowledges that it can be hard to wait for the right candidates, especially when the need for additional staff feels urgent. But by aligning your hiring process with faith, being intentional about seeking God’s guidance, and trusting in His timing, you can build a strong, cohesive team that aligns with your practice’s mission.
For those in a similar position, Amy’s advice is to lean into your faith during the hiring process. Create a process that not only assesses qualifications but also considers alignment with your practice’s values. Above all, trust that God will bring the right people to your team, in His time, and according to His plan.
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: Leading a group practice is not easy. We did not go to school to learn about business or really leadership skills. We went to become therapists. So as you grow your group practice, it's hard to know where to go to learn more about being a good leader. Years ago, my practice felt out of control for me. I had six to eight therapists.
I wasn't really sure what leadership roles I needed, what my policies and procedures were. And I was scared to communicate because I didn't know what my therapist would say to me and I wasn't sure how to communicate effectively with them. That was when I reached out to ARC Integrated and began my coaching package with Michael Dietrich Chastain.
Then I learned how to appropriately communicate with my therapists. I began to understand what was happening within me that was making me so nervous about those conversations. I began to put policies and procedures in place. That brought structure and organization to the practice. And I was able to put therapists in leadership roles so that the pressure wasn't all on me.
Looking back at my work with Michael, I see that I was changed and the practice changed and we started on a trajectory of growth and success. In fact, my practice is double the size now from what it was then. And I adhere a lot of that to my work with Michael. Because it helped me become a better leader and more confident in my skills.
So if you're a group practice center or organizational leader, and you're looking to grow your skills, understand yourself better, bring more team cohesion and retain your employees. I encourage you to reach out by going to arcintegrated. com slash coaching. Let Michael know you heard about him from me.
On the wise practice podcast, and he would love to work with you. In fact, if you head to arc integrated. com slash coaching, you can schedule a free leadership consultation. I know when I did my free consultation, I learned tons and you will too. Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith based practice consultant.
And I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Want to grow your practice? Want to grow your faith? Want to enjoy your life outside of work? You've come to the right place. Yeah. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith based practice while also having a good time.
Now let's get started. Where
she grows your practice, she don't play, she does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast.
Hello friends, and welcome to the Wise Practice Podcast. I'm Amy Dover, faith based practice owner, group practice owner in Enterprise, Alabama, and WISE Practice Consultant. And I'm so glad that you're here with me today on the second episode of this podcast takeover for the month of October. And again, I graciously thank Whitney for allowing me to step into her shoes and into her seat for these four episodes.
I'm excited to talk with you guys today about faithful hiring, choosing the right therapist for your practice. I definitely have a lot to say on this topic, but I am limiting myself so that you're not listening to this for hours. It was really hard to do that, but I've really kind of settled on three things that I want to talk about with faithful hiring.
One is the role of faith in the hiring process. Two is practical steps for faith based hiring and three is balancing faith. And the qualifications of therapists that you want to hire. So let's dive in. First part, the role of faith in the hiring process. We always want to make sure that as much as possible, we are aligning our practice with our faith.
As faith based practice owners, our faith is important to us. We want to conduct and behave through the lens of our faith, make decisions through the lens of our faith. Uh, I firmly believe that God blesses ethical decisions and ethical business decision making. And I think that God really likes ethical business.
And so part of that is making sure that we lean on our faith. As we hire, we want to have ethical professional people that we're hiring. And so we always want to do our best to align the practice with our faith. We want to understand the significance of hiring therapists who share or respect your faith values.
Some of you are definitely, uh have the The mindset that you want to only hire believers for your practice. Some of you are open to hiring non believers for your practice. And if you choose to hire non believers, as long as they respect the importance of your faith and how it drives a lot of your business decisions, I think that can be a beautiful dynamic.
So my practice has been open for almost 10 years. And in that time, I've grown it from just me all the way up to 16 therapists. And now currently I'm, I'm at eight. Lots of history in there. I'm going to be sharing some of that in the next episode as I talk about some transitions that my practice has gone through.
But part of that was. My hiring process went through a lot of evolution over the last nine and a half years. And for several years on my staff, I had both believers and non believers. And the non believers, of course, did not share my faith, but they respected my faith, and they respected how much it played a part in my life and in the practice.
And it was really a great dynamic for a long time. Things changed and some people have left and again, I will go into some details with that next episode. But I really, those of you who are kind of on the line of do I hire nonbelievers or not, I encourage you just to give that some more thought and to pray about it because it really can be an opportunity for you to show nonbelievers what it looks like for a Christian and a faith based practice on our to do business and to take really good care of their team and their clients.
God So for the role of faith in hiring, we always want to seek God's direction when considering our potential candidates. We want to pray specifically for wisdom and discernment and clarity. And we also just want to trust God to bring the right people to our practice. If we are going to him for guidance and seeking that wisdom and discernment and allowing him to work in his time, he's going to bring us the right people.
He's going to bring us that A team of people who need to be working with us in our practice. So I want to share a couple of stories. From my own experience, the first one is one thing I like to tell my team members is that they are each a walking, talking, living, breathing answer to prayers that I prayed for each of them to come, that I prayed for each of them as I talked with them and interviewed with them and sought God's guidance and whether or not I needed to offer them a position here.
And they were their literal answers to prayers. And most of them have turned out, most of the people I've hired have turned out to be good people, good fits, even if they didn't stay with me for very long, for the most part, it was a good experience. But then there was a time that I did not pray over my hiring process, and I want to share that with you because it's funny, but there's also some lessons I learned in it.
So this was years ago. I had someone contact me. She was new in town, and she was a psychologist, and she was wanting to meet with me because she was interested in talking about possibly coming on board with my practice. And one thing you have to understand about lower Alabama is that there, we just don't really have a lot of providers for services down here.
So anytime that you're trying to get in with psychiatry, get your client a psychological evaluation, sometimes they're on a waiting list for months. If we need to get someone Tested for autism. There are providers around here who have waiting lists over a year long. Guys, it is not, it's not good. We just, there's just such a lack of services around here.
It's really sad actually. And those, those clients that we have who are capable and who have the resources to drive, we can send them out to Birmingham, Tallahassee, Mobile, you know, some of them to Montgomery, but not even, there's not even a whole lot of Montgomery. Just, you know, Some to Atlanta, there's just, you're going to have to drive if you want to get seen quickly for a psyche eval in particular.
So I was so excited when the psychologist contacted me and said that she had seen my son, that she had asked around town about me and her good things. And she wanted to meet with me to see if maybe she could be a part of my team. Well, absolutely, of course, I wanted to meet with her, and I just assumed, y'all, that this was from God.
God knew that I wanted a psychologist on the team. He knew just how badly we needed that service in our area, and that it would be a great addition to Dover Counseling. I just knew it was from God. So I met with her. It's a great conversation, a good interview, and I offered her to come on board with us.
And at the time I was a 1099. So I had specific 1099 contracts that I was utilizing. We both signed and agreed that we were going to be working together. She would be working under the, the umbrella of Dover Counseling. Guys. It was a disaster. It was a disaster. She came from an agency. That's all she had ever done was agency work and she just could not change her mindset to private practice.
Now we all know that private practice is its own kind of beast. It is a small business. So the importance of client retention and knowing your numbers and understanding how to schedule and working your caseload, like all of those things are very important in private practice when they're not necessarily so important in agency work.
And she just had such a hard time wrapping her mind around those things. And at one point she came to me and asked if she could have two offices instead of one, because she did not want to utilize her office. For some of the evaluations with children, and I'm like, I can't give you a second office. You already don't produce enough revenue with the one office that I've given you.
That's just, that's not how this works. And there was just, I don't want to say a lot of conflict, but we were just never really on the same page. She was, she did not share my faith system, and she, she went on to tell me that as a scientist she felt like Adam and Eve and, and a lot of things in the Bible were a myth, and she respected that I wanted to pray at staff meetings because I let her know up front that that's what I do.
But guys, I did not, I did not pray about this. I did not ask her. Or let her know, really give her any kind of information about how I run things and utilize my faith and because I just knew it was from God. She called me out of the blue and he knew that I, I wanted and needed a psychologist. It had to be from God.
Guys, I did not pray over it. I did not seek his guidance and his wisdom. And it blew up in my face. So she lasted about a year and then we both decided it was time for us to part ways. Now it was a very amicable professional divorce. I will say that we were both very professional about it. She ended up leaving and opening her own private practice in town.
And she, she lasted about six months before she ended up closing and going back to agency work. We still refer to each other because at the end of the day, she was still a good clinician and she still trusted what we did over here in my practice. So we were able to make it work for that time. That's an example of how not seeking God's wisdom and guidance and just assuming that something like that happens, that's an example of how if, if you don't seek God's, God's wisdom and just lean on your faith, it could, it could be a lesson learned for sure.
So Definitely have to make sure that I put my oopsies out there because we've all, we've all had those, right? And none of us are perfect, but it's definitely a lesson in the importance of seeking God's clarity and God's discernment and wisdom in the hiring process. So number two, let's talk a little bit about practical steps for faith based hiring.
So we definitely want to create a faith centered hiring process. You want to design job descriptions that reflect your practice's faith based mission. It's important that you have questions during the interview to ask and gauge alignment with your faith values. involving prayer in each step of the hiring process is very important from the screening of the resumes to the final interviews.
I have a really great leadership team that I put in place last summer who has helped me to design interview questions and a set of core values that very, very clearly show our faith and, and just the practice culture and how faith is an important part of that. And even if people who are coming in do not share our faith, system or our faith belief system, they're going to know that where we stand and we're going to know pretty quickly during an interview if someone is aligned with us.
And it's funny because I'm definitely one of those people who I like to just let people talk sometimes, particularly in an interview. So recently I've been doing more interviews because I'm in the process of trying to find and hire more therapists for my team. And it's just so funny to me how people will come in and they'll sit down and immediately kind of start doing the verbal vomit all over me and the leadership team because they, there is, it's a panel interview that we do now, and I know it's from a position of anxiety, you know, because they're wanting to sell themselves, but also because they.
And they're nervous, but they also, they wanted, they want me to know that, that they would be a good fit that, that, that they would be a good fit for the practice. They have questions too. And there's just this eagerness a lot of times. And in that eagerness, they just talk a lot. And so sometimes I'll redirect them so that we can get some of our questions answered from from our interview questions.
But other times, I'll just like them talk because they'll answer the questions on their own. Automatically, or they tell me a lot of things that maybe they didn't want me to know just because they keep talking. And so if you find yourself in that situation in an interview, I definitely encourage you to give people the space that they might need to get some things out, because you're going to learn a lot about someone and just how much they talk.
We don't necessarily want to do that. Of course, in the clinical setting, you know, we have some clients who do that as well. They come in and kind of do the verbal vomit all over us. And sometimes they need to do that. That's important for their, their treatment. But in an interview, I always, I'm just really interested in hearing what people have to say.
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Also part of practical steps for hire for faith based hiring is discerning God's will and the decision making process. So you want to listen for God's guidance during interviews and candidate evaluations. Understand the importance of having patience and not rushing the process. There's this really good phrase in business that says, be slow to hire so that you don't have to be quick to fire.
And I don't know if any of you have had to let any team members go, but I have. And it's agonizing. And every time I've had to do it, it's needed to be done. And most of the time I have waited too long anyway to take care of it. So I knew they were good decisions, good business decisions, but it was awful.
It's awful to fire someone to terminate their contractor to ask them not to come back. It's awful. So the, the more patient you are with the, with the hiring process, the more you lean on God's, his timing and his desire to bring people to your team in the, the time that he desires, that is going to be so important and really working to not get ahead of him.
And that is one of my biggest hangups. You know, I, I want to get things done yesterday. I want to hire new people last week. I want to get them on boarded last month. I'm always, I'm always, I'm always wanting to do the next thing. And so I'm, I'm really in a season of my practice where I'm being very intentional with not getting ahead of him with allowing him to work things out in his own time and to trust his process and not try to make it Amy's process.
And it's challenging, but he is. He's showing up, y'all. He is just such a good God and he is showing up and it's amazing to see. So definitely encourage you to, to be very patient in your hiring process. And then also recognizing while you're in the decision making process and even during an actual interview, recognizing the importance of, are you feeling peace about this person?
Or are you feeling some unease? You know, the Holy Spirit who lives inside of us communicates us, communicates with us in different ways. And I think one of those ways is just a feeling of unease. I told you a few minutes ago that we've been going through quite a few interviews here and there have been one or two interviews that in the middle of it, I've just gotten this really just this sense of hesitation, this sense in my, in my gut, this feeling of This person's not right, Amy.
This is not, this would not be a good hire for you. And I don't necessarily know why I'm getting that, that feeling or I'm getting that sense, but I have learned to recognize it and listen to it. Because if I'm feeling that way in an interview, it's probably only going to build over time. And I've certainly been in cases where I did not listen to that feeling of unease and I regretted it later.
So definitely look for. Am I feeling at peace with this person? How did the hiring or the interview process go? If you have any team members who help you in the interview process, how, what was the sense that they got, did any of them feel any unease, how much peace did they feel while speaking with this person, the, the candidate that you interviewed, what kind of spirit did they seem to have, uh, a recent hire that we made last month when she came in to interview, I immediately just felt this peace from her.
She just had such a peaceful, sweet spirit. And I imagine myself being her client and sitting across the room from her and having a session with her and it felt so good. And the interview went great and we ended up offering her a position. She'll start with us in a couple of months. And that was what I was hoping to get from some of my interviews.
And so I certainly got it from her, but I did not get it from others. Again, really, really paying attention to how you're feeling um during the interview and then even while you're praying over her resumes and praying over whether or not to offer someone a job. The other thing that I do is, that's a practical step, I believe, for, for faith based hiring is, I mentioned that I do have a set of core values and I have a set of interview questions that my leadership team and I came up with about a year ago.
We just had a work day one Friday where we met about nine o'clock and we worked until five in the afternoon. And a lot of what we worked on was our interview process and just Creating really good systems around it, and we've got it down. We did a really great job on, and I'm so pleased with what my leadership team did, and it really helps guide us through this whole process.
So anytime there's a little blip that comes up or a question comes up, we're like, Okay, let's go back to the policy that we that we wrote and see what we need to do in this situation. It's been a game changer for us. And so I do encourage you, if you have not sat down and taken the time to write it out.
Core values for your practice, maybe a mission statement, like, who are you and what do you do with your practice and a vision statement? All of those things are really important because they are going to be aligned with your faith, which is going to help you align your hiring process and help you align the people.
That you choose to bring on to your process. If you've got that foundation, that is going to make things a little bit easier. And I love coming alongside practice owners who are in the middle of doing that and trying to figure those things out for their practice. What's the goal of my practice? What's the purpose of my practice?
What is our vision and our mission here in the community? And again, when you have answers to that, it brings clarity to, to your hiring process, period. So, the third and last thing I wanted to talk to you about today was balancing faith and professional qualifications. So, we always want to make sure that we're, we're really thinking about, do I want to hire people for my team who are believers?
Or do I want to hire people who have a certain set of skills, and they can be believers or nonbelievers. So there, there's no right or wrong answer to that. Everyone is different and how they respond and how their practice culture is, and I'm going to respect that. whatever people decide. And as I told you, currently, everyone who works with me on my team is faith based.
They're all Christian. But up until just the last few months, it was a mix of believers and non believers. So that answer, as I said, will be different for everyone. But you certainly want to make sure that you, you know what you want. I want to balance the need for clinical expertise with faith based alignment.
I want to make sure that the to hire. meet professional and ethical standards while also respecting the practice's faith foundation. Because I will tell you, it's not, after you get your license, it's not particularly hard to keep it. Have you guys noticed that? I don't, I don't think I'm stepping out of line when I say that.
It's really hard to get a state license. It's just the hours that are involved, the financial commitment that's involved, the energy. Sometimes it felt like I was chasing those hours. But once I finally got my license and passed my board and all those things, it's not particularly hard to keep it. I take the required CEUs I need to do every couple of years when it's time to renew.
I pay my money and I'm good to go until it's time to renew two more years. So it's not particularly hard to find people who meet the professional qualifications of Our, our particular professions, but we also want to make sure that they align with us and that, that they, even if they don't have our Christian views, that they respect what we're bringing to the table and they respect our practices, faith foundation.
So that's just something else to keep in mind too, as you're, as you're giving more thought to what type of therapist do I want to hire for the practice? And as always, just cover all of that with prayer and really reflecting on, am I making balanced hiring decisions? Am I, am I truly seeking God's will and trusting him to bring me the right people for my team and making sure that I'm not stepping ahead of him and getting in the way.
So I want to, with that, I want to share an example of, of an interview that I did a little over a year ago. And it was someone that, that, that came into interview with me and this was before my. Before I had a leadership team who was interviewing with me. So, actually, this was probably closer to 18 months ago because we've been doing panel leadership team interviews for about a year now.
So, for, for years, it was just me who interviewed people because I was the practice owner. We were 1099 practice and it was my decision. You know, there are a couple of people in the practice whose opinions and feedback is extremely important to me and who are who are like minded, but who also see things differently than me.
And so I would always bounce off my concerns or just. My sense of people, when I would interview them, I would always go to these two people and talk to them about it and get their feedback. But this one particular therapist I was interviewing, he was in front of me and he was telling me, you know, how many, how many clients he sees a week, how many case or how many clients he has on his caseload.
He will be bringing a whole big caseload with him to, to my practice. He wouldn't need a whole lot of referrals to keep him going because he just had this great name for himself out in the community, you know, really selling himself. Right. And so he got to the end of his little spiel about himself. And my question was, so, oh, that's great.
But I need to know if you have integrity and character because I can teach anyone the skills that they need to be successful in private practice. I can teach you how to schedule. I can teach you all about client retention. I can teach you how to get referrals and, and create referral relationships in the community.
I can teach you your numbers and how to schedule properly. I can teach anyone all of that, but I can't teach you to have integrity or to have integrity and character. Good character. Are you a person of character? And are you trustworthy to work in my building and under my name? Y'all he froze And he he was honest.
He said no one's ever asked me that before Because I didn't care about his performance. Yes, that's important. His clinical skills are important. I didn't care about Particularly about how many people he was, clients he was bringing with him. Yes, how many clients someone can see during a week is important.
But I needed to know, are you someone I can trust in my building with a key and a security code? After hours, are you someone I can trust in my building behind closed doors, providing really good solid clinical services to the clients who come to us? Do I want you with my name? And that was mind blowing to him.
And so I really encourage you to. Really kind of dig deep with some of the people that you're looking to hire. You again, balancing the faith with professional qualifications, but really trying to make sure that you're, you're hiring those people with integrity and good character, because they will represent you and your practice.
And whether that's a non believer who respects your faith or a believer who's, who aligns with your, with your value system, you want to make sure that you All of that is important. All of it needs to be covered in prayer. And, and as always, if you let God guide these things, he is not going to steer you wrong.
He's going to give you lots of opportunities to learn, to trust him and to be in alignment with him and what he wants for your practice. And I just really encourage you guys to, to seek his clarity, to seek his guidance, to seek his wisdom and to just listen to his spirit as you're making these faithful hires for your practice.
Amen. All right, guys. That brings me to the close. I would love to hear from you. If anything I said today just kind of triggered a thought or a question, please feel free to email me. You can email me directly at amy at WisePracticeConsulting. com. If you're interested in doing some consulting work with me, I absolutely love working with folks.
Right now, I'm running a mastermind group. And I just want to give a shout out to those ladies because they're amazing. But if you were interested in, in working with me, you can go to the website, www. wiseconsult, wisepractisconsulting. com and you can look at my bio, look at all the information on there, I'd be more than happy to talk with you, schedule a free consult call, and I really appreciate all of you spending some time with me today.
Y'all have a great week.
So click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice Podcast. Whitney Owens and the Wise
[00:28:49] Whitney Owens: Practice Podcast. Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The wise practice podcast is part of the site craft podcast network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives.
To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to site craft network. com. The wise practice podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
