WP180 | The Hard Truth: 5 Things Practice Owners Shouldn’t Be Doing with Zack Ufland
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Y’all ever look around at your practice and realize you’re doing something just because “that’s how everyone else does it”… but deep down, it’s not really working?
In this episode, I’m sitting down with Zack Ufland to talk through five things practice owners might need to stop doing. And I’ll be honest, some of these might ruffle a few feathers.
We’re talking about things like offering free consults, giving too much grace with cancellations, trying to do everything yourself, and more. These are habits a lot of us pick up along the way without ever really questioning them.
What I love about this conversation is that it’s not about shame or judgment. It’s about getting honest. Are you making decisions from fear, or from what actually supports the kind of practice you’re trying to build?
We also get into the reality that not everything is black and white. What makes sense in one season of your business might not make sense in another. But if you’ve been feeling stretched thin, second-guessing your systems, or wondering why things aren’t clicking the way you hoped, this episode is for you.
Sometimes the most helpful thing you can do is take a step back and ask, “Is this actually serving me… or is it just what I’ve always done?”
Stop Offering Free 15-Minute Consultations
Y’all, I know this one might feel a little uncomfortable. Because somewhere along the way, we were told that offering free consults is just part of being a therapist.
But let’s think about it for a second. What other professional is out here giving away their time like that?
What I see happen over and over is confusion. The client isn’t sure what the consult is supposed to be. The therapist is trying to build rapport in 15 minutes. And most of the time, it runs over anyway.
It also quietly sends a message that your time isn’t as valuable as it actually is.
Now, I get it. If you’re brand new and trying to get clients in the door, it can feel scary to take this away. But a lot of times, we’re holding onto this out of fear, not because it’s actually the best way to serve people.
You can build a full practice without giving your time away for free.
Stop Giving “Grace” for Missed Appointments
I hear this all the time. “We give one free late cancellation.”
And I always ask, then why is that not in your policy?
Because what you’re really doing is saying one thing and then doing another. And that creates confusion for your clients and inconsistency in your practice.
Y’all, boundaries matter. Not just for you, but for your clients too.
When you don’t follow your cancellation policy, it’s usually because of guilt or fear that they won’t come back. But what we’ve actually seen is the opposite. The therapists with the strongest boundaries often have the best retention.
If you’re going to have a policy, stick to it. And if you want to offer grace, build it into your policy so it’s clear and consistent.
Healthy boundaries create healthy practices.
Stop Building a DIY Website That Doesn’t Reflect Your Value
Now listen, if you’re just starting out and money is tight, do what you’ve gotta do.
But as you grow, your website needs to grow with you.
Your website is your first impression. And whether we like it or not, people are making decisions about you in seconds based on how it looks and feels.
I’ve seen amazing therapists lose potential clients because their website didn’t clearly communicate who they help or how they can help.
And please hear me on this. Your website is not about you.
It’s about your client feeling seen, understood, and hopeful that you can help them.
If the first thing they see is a giant picture of you and all your credentials, they’re already thinking, “Is this about them or about me?”
Investing in a clean, clear, client-centered website can make a huge difference in how your practice grows.
Stop Saying Yes to Clients Who Aren’t a Good Fit
This one is tricky because the answer really depends on where you are.
If you’re trying to pay your bills and keep your doors open, you might need to take clients that aren’t your ideal. And there’s no shame in that.
We are trained professionals. We can help a lot of people.
But as your practice grows, you have to start paying attention to fit.
Because saying yes to everyone can lead to burnout real quick.
There are also certain areas where you need to be honest about your training and competence. If a client needs something you truly aren’t equipped to provide, it’s better to refer them out than try to stretch yourself beyond your scope.
But for a lot of situations, we can do more than we think.
Clients don’t always know what they need. That’s our job to help them figure out.
So this isn’t about being rigid. It’s about being thoughtful and honest about what season you’re in and what you can realistically hold.
Stop Doing Everything Yourself Just to Save Money
If you’re thinking about hiring help, you’ve probably already waited too long.
I say that with love, because I did the exact same thing.
I remember sitting in my office with a client waiting in the lobby while the phone was ringing, trying to decide if I should answer it or start my session. That’s not sustainable.
When you’re doing everything yourself, you’re not actually saving money. You’re limiting your growth.
Every missed call is a missed opportunity. Every hour you spend on admin work is time you could be using to see clients, build relationships, or grow your business.
And it’s not just about tasks. It’s about support.
Having someone who can handle the day-to-day, troubleshoot problems, and even just be there with you in the ups and downs of running a practice changes everything.
Y’all, you don’t have to do this alone. And honestly, you’re not meant to.
When you start letting go of what you were never supposed to carry by yourself, your practice can finally grow into what it’s meant to be.
Sponsor Wise Practice Summit 2026
If you’re in a season of big decisions, feeling stuck, or carrying the weight of leadership, the Wise Practice Summit was created for you. It’s a space for faith-based practice owners to step away from the day-to-day, gain clarity, and realign their practice with their life and calling.
Right now, you can grab $100 off your ticket with our Early Bird pricing through May 1.
You don’t have to figure this out alone.
Meet Zack Ufland, LMFT
Zack Ufland is a private practice owner, consultant, and leader who is passionate about helping therapists build sustainable, thriving practices. After transitioning out of agency work, Zack successfully built a private pay practice—Paradigm Therapy in Raleigh, North Carolina—and later expanded into a group practice alongside his wife. He’s known for his focus on creating strong systems, healthy boundaries, and a positive team culture that actually supports both clinicians and clients. Today, Zack helps practice owners grow with intention so their business can support the life they truly want, and he also serves as a consultant with Wise Practice Consulting.
Zack’s Resources
Private Practice Start-Up Checklist
Links and Resources
Learn More about Wise Practice Consulting
Connect with Wise Practice on Instagram
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: One of the things that I hear from practice owners is that they go to conferences, they learn a lot, but something's missing. It's usually about connection. Being in a room with people who actually see work the same way that they do. This is why we created the Wise Practice Summit. A conference specifically for faith-based practice owners.
You're listening to this podcast that's you people who are not just building a business, but they're integrating faith in a way. They lead the way they make decisions and the way they care for their clients. So the truth is there really isn't another practice zoning conference that's also a faith conference in the same way that this one is.
You're not having to filter content. You're not having to translate it to fit your values. Everything is designed with you in mind. So you can come into a room, totally be yourself, and actually focus on building your practice in a way that aligns with both your goals and your calling. So right now, you can get a hundred dollars off your ticket to the Wise Practice Summit as long as you purchase before May 1st.
And if you've been wanting a space like this, you'll feel it as soon as you arrive. We will welcome you with open arms, so grab your spot, use the link in the show notes, or head over to wise practice consulting.com and I can't wait to see you there. Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith-based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all.
Wanna grow your practice, wanna grow your faith? Wanna enjoy your life outside of work, you've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith-based practice while also having a good time. Now, let's get started.
[00:01:47] Jingle: Wish she grows you a P.
She don't play. She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owens and The Wise Practice Podcast. Whitney Owen and The Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:02:05] Whitney Owens: Hello friends and welcome back to the Wise Practice Co podcast. It means a lot to me that you take the time to be here with me. I recently put out an email about a gut punch that I got, and I loved all the people that responded.
So if you're not on my email list, please go to Wise Practice Consulting and join the email list. But I try to put out stuff that's real, right, stuff that I'm personally experiencing, stuff I'm talking to you about on the podcast in my email series. And I just loved the feedback I got and I just wanna get real here.
Y'all, you are owning a practice. You're struggling. We're all struggling. I mean, things are great sometimes and we don't feel so much struggle, but the truth is. Running a practice is really hard and I could be here all day telling you how to do it. In fact, this episode I interview Zach Lin, one of our wise practice consultants, and he and I honestly just have a conversation about the should nots in private practice.
So I can tell you all the reasons why you should do one thing, do another thing, but you never can do it perfectly and the gut punches are gonna come and you gotta be okay with them. It's just part of running practice y'all. So I just wanna normalize that for you. In fact, I just got another sucker punch the other day, you know, and I, I can say with certainty though.
It's really nice to have other people alongside the journey with me. Like even when these gut punches occur, at least I'm not doing 'em by myself, you know? And I have someone to talk about the emotions that I experience and think about how we wanna move forward together. And again, that is what wise practice is about too.
Like you don't have to run a practice and be alone in what you do. We have a community of other faith-based practice owners to help one another along the journey. And. So you don't have to get punched and wonder what's going on. You've got people that can help you with that process. So as we talk about today, in this episode, we're really going to jump into the should nots.
Um, which can kind of feel like gut punches, I guess, in a little bit of a way. But the truth is these are patterns that a lot of practice owners fall into. It's kind of like when things feel unproductive or unnecessary, or not making the revenue you need to make, these are some things that you might be doing that you need to stop doing so you can get to your outcomes that you're looking for.
So I hope that as you listen, you find yourself going, huh, maybe I should rethink that, or maybe I should change that. Or maybe you listen and you realize that you're totally okay with what it is. That's okay too. It's just a time for you to rethink your practice. Um, and then also if you start listening to Zach and you're like.
I really resonate with that guy. Like I, I would love to talk to him more. We offer no cost clarity calls with wise practice, so you can just head to the website, go to the services, hit the one-on-one consulting. You can fill out an application and jump on a call with Zach. It's important to us that people walk away and feel like they gain something through these calls.
It's just about providing you value. If you decide at the end you wanna work with us, great. If you decide at the end that you don't, that's okay too, as long as you got value out of the call, and it helps you move forward in the goals that you have in your practice. So, without further ado, we're gonna jump into episode 180.
We're gonna talk about the should nots within private practice.
Hello friends and welcome back to The Wise Practice Podcast. We are excited today to be talking about the five things that practice owners should not be doing in their practice. Um, and I have a returning guest here with us. We have Zach und, who is a private practice owner, consultant, and leader who's passionate about helping therapists build sustainable, thriving practices after transitioning.
Out of an agency. Zach successfully built a private pay practice Paradigm therapy in Raleigh, North Carolina, and later expanded into a group practice alongside his wife. He's known for his focus on creating strong systems, healthy boundaries in a positive team culture that actually supports therapists and clients.
So today's Zach helps practice owners grow with intentionality so that their private practice can support the life they want, and he serves as one of the consultants at Wise Practice. Thanks for coming on the show.
[00:06:19] Zack Ufland: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:06:21] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So we are gonna go ahead and jump into the dos and don'ts, um, because I had you on a previous episode where we got to know you a little bit better.
Um, so if you missed the episode before this one, please go back and listen. But we're gonna talk about the five things that practice owners should not be doing in their practice. And a lot of times, I don't know if you agree with me, you don't know what you don't know.
[00:06:43] Zack Ufland: Mm-hmm. Or something Sounds like a really good idea or is something that most business owners, pri, private practice owners do in your particular area.
And so sometimes we offer these things and don't even. Question it just because it's part of what clients expect or what is just run in the mill.
[00:07:02] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Do you know how many practice owners reach out and say, oh yeah, I do that thing because the guy down the street does the thing?
[00:07:08] Zack Ufland: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:09] Whitney Owens: And I'm like, well, that's a dumb thing.
[00:07:11] Zack Ufland: Right? That's when clients call and they've been calling around different places and they want something, or they're expecting something, then that can kind of lead to some conflict. And then as you're building a business. Sometimes you wanna remove every single barrier possible, even though sometimes those barriers can be kind of healthy.
[00:07:32] Whitney Owens: Ah. So I'm interested in knowing about that.
[00:07:34] Zack Ufland: Okay. So how we kind of structured this, Whitney and I, is I have five things that I think that practice owners should stop doing, and she doesn't really know what I've written on this list, so I'm gonna pitch 'em to you on the fly. These are things that. I've done, maybe I currently do some of these things.
Maybe I should stop them, maybe I shouldn't. Curious to know what your thoughts are. Maybe we can kind of go back and forth. How does that sound?
[00:08:02] Whitney Owens: Sounds great.
[00:08:03] Zack Ufland: Okay. So the first one is huge, and this was something actually that in my consulting we talked about, okay, you should not offer free 15 minute consultations for new clients.
[00:08:21] Whitney Owens: Well, what if that's the only way people get new clients?
[00:08:24] Zack Ufland: Well, that would be my counter. So this was a huge thing because at the practice I was before that was just part of the culture was 15 minute consultations is the best way to get people in the door. They get to hear the therapist and they get on your caseload.
Now, what are your thoughts as it relates to consultation? Do you do free 15 minute consults in your practice?
[00:08:50] Whitney Owens: Absolutely not. Actually we do. I'm sorry. You do. You're like, oh no, you've never told me. No, we don't offer it. But if somebody requests it, we do. We do if they request it. But I do have to pay the therapist to do the 15 minute consults.
But I'm just sitting here listening to you and I'm thinking, what professional offers free 15 minute consults other than therapists?
[00:09:10] Zack Ufland: That's exactly right. When I was in my, yeah, when I was in my training and to be a therapist. I remember one of the things that helped me so much was people asking me, or my supervisor saying, Zach, would you expect that of a doctor's office?
Mm-hmm. And there's something about the therapist's culture, because we care about people so deeply that we just wanna meet them exactly where they're at. But sometimes 15 minute consults are not helpful for anybody. They're kind of confusing to the client. 'cause they're not sure. Okay. Is this a session?
Like what are we doing here? You are asking 'em to be a little bit vulnerable without actually like buying in which there's some, you know, ethical things there. Also, it doesn't give a fair opportunity to the clinician to really like sell themselves like
[00:10:04] Jingle: mm-hmm
[00:10:04] Zack Ufland: You know, when I used to do 15 minute consults, I would say to the potential client, gimme one to two sentences.
Of what you're going through, and I'll tell you how I think I can meet that need, one to two senses of their entire thing they're struggling with. It's
[00:10:20] Whitney Owens: tough. It kind of devalues the situation.
[00:10:23] Zack Ufland: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. And last thing, and then I wanna hear more of your thoughts. What we found in my practice is that there were some clinicians that were better at converting than others.
And those clinicians that couldn't convert. It was because they didn't know how to go from 15 minutes, which is a hard expectation. Building that rapport to then translating because we're private practice and insurance based.
[00:10:51] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:10:52] Zack Ufland: So sometimes people view as like free therapy and I don't know. But going back to your question, what if that's the only way.
To get people in the door.
[00:11:04] Whitney Owens: It's not, that's just what people say. That's their excuse. When they get mad at me, when I tell 'em they can't do 'em anymore.
[00:11:11] Zack Ufland: Well, I think it's fear-based.
[00:11:13] Whitney Owens: Mm.
[00:11:14] Zack Ufland: It can be fear based
[00:11:16] Whitney Owens: because they think the client won't schedule if they don't give 'em 15 minutes for free. Mm-hmm.
[00:11:20] Zack Ufland: Mm-hmm. Yep. A lot of people call into our practice and we track this most ask for a free 50 minute consult,
[00:11:30] Whitney Owens: and so what do you say?
[00:11:32] Zack Ufland: We're working through it. This is one of those should stop doings that even for me personally, I'm wrestling through because I'm, I'm trying to balance, okay, do I hold firm and risk losing that potential client?
Or do I say, okay, 15 minute consults are. Something that's part of our practice and then people fall through the cracks or clinicians come into the office and prepare, and then there's a no-show or there's missed expectations. It's a difficult balance.
[00:12:06] Whitney Owens: Sure. I mean, a lot of the therapists at my practice, some of 'em actually wanted to do it because they said, well, what if the client's not a good fit for me?
I can figure that out in 15. No, look, you can't figure that out in 15 minutes, and we're talking about a client that needs help.
[00:12:24] Zack Ufland: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:24] Whitney Owens: So for you to do a 15 minute consult and get to the end and say, I'm not a good fit for you, you're pushing that client off. You're making them feel terrible. And it's better to get a client seen, even if they're not your ideal fit than a client that's not served at all.
[00:12:37] Zack Ufland: Yep. That's absolutely right.
[00:12:39] Whitney Owens: Yeah. You can't adequately assess somebody in 15 minutes. None
[00:12:42] Zack Ufland: of '
[00:12:43] Whitney Owens: em go 15 minutes. They always go 20 to 30 minutes. And when we say, Hey, I'll see you for 15 minutes for free, what are we saying about ourselves and our time? And then clients have this idea that therapy doesn't need to be.
What it is, you know? And it, I don't have to pay for it. It doesn't have to be top dollar. Like, yeah, you should be spending top dollar. 'cause I'm a really good therapist and I'm actually gonna really help you.
[00:13:09] Zack Ufland: Yeah. So I agree that you probably, probably shouldn't offer 15 minute consults, but I also empathize for new practice owners who are nervous and feel like this is one of the ways that they can get people in the door as quick as possible.
Maybe that's something to question, so. Mm-hmm. Alright, ready for the next one?
[00:13:34] Whitney Owens: Sure.
[00:13:35] Zack Ufland: You should not give grace for missed appointments. Like, oh, you get one free late cancellation. What do you think?
[00:13:46] Whitney Owens: Yeah, we actually talked about this in the last practice community yesterday. Yeah. 'cause one of the girls said that was, we were talking about our struggles in our practice and she said, our biggest struggle right now is this cancellation issue.
And she said, we give one grace. And I said, so your paperwork says that you're gonna get charged for late cancellation, but then when they do it, you don't do it. So you do something the opposite of what you say you're gonna do. If you're gonna offer a Grace one, put it in your paperwork. Say, Hey, you know what?
I'm gonna give you a freebie. I'm only gonna follow my policy some of the time. So I do think that if you're gonna put a policy out there and you're gonna say it's how you do something, you don't change that. Mm-hmm. For your client, you change it because you need to for whatever it is for you. But it's like we feel guilty, or what I hear a lot is.
They're not gonna come back. When we ran those numbers at my practice, the therapist that had the best retention by far in the practice was the one that charged the most cancellation fees.
[00:14:48] Zack Ufland: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's something that could potentially lead to conflict, but that highlights the, the seriousness of the relationship and the work, and it's honoring to all the work we've done to become therapists.
Going back to the analogy with a doctor, it's like. Do you ever get mad at your doctor because you might have missed an appointment and they charged you some kind of fee? That's part of the, it's part of the deal, but yeah, this one is, is difficult. How we handle it is we give one freebie. Still wanna work through that a little bit.
This might be a should not, this is something to consider, but. Thereafter, unless it's a family emergency or sickness, those are the only two immediate late charge.
[00:15:41] Whitney Owens: Do you have a hard time getting the therapist at your practice to implement that policy?
[00:15:45] Zack Ufland: Not the therapist here, and I, I don't know why that is because other practices I've been to, I've been at, there is this kind of like tension, but at least the.
Therapists that we have working here now, I think really see the value that they provide. And I don't know if that's innate in them or if that's me encouraging them or if it's about how we've set up the business, but I encourage them, the work you do is important and boundaries are healthy. And what do, what do we tell our clients all the time?
What comes with boundaries? Healthy conflict. And that's good. It's really, really good. So. This one's a. This one's a tough one, but I think going back, if I think with people who are starting a practice or who are growing a group practice, if you are not doing something health healthy because you're scared, that's very different than having a very concrete based boundary.
Right? So if I'm saying I don't want to give a grace. Appointment because I'm scared that they're gonna get mad at me and leave and that I'm not gonna have an income. Totally identify with that, but that's fear-based and not value-based, and that is setting up a practice for some unhealthy boundaries.
[00:17:06] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm. I think, yeah. Interesting. My clinical director and I talked about this as well, and she said. Whitney, it was really interesting. I used to not charge people for being sick, but then I got kind of tired of people canceling me day of 'cause they were sick. So I started implementing the cancellation policy.
You'd be surprised how many people aren't sick anymore.
[00:17:33] Zack Ufland: Right?
[00:17:34] Whitney Owens: Right. And I thought that was really fascinating. We have to work really hard with our therapist to get 'em to implement the policy because they don't see the business side, you know? And they. I don't know. It's that therapist heart they have and her associates, so
[00:17:50] Zack Ufland: yeah.
Yeah. Third one's interesting. I think you should not create your own website.
[00:18:02] Whitney Owens: Why not?
[00:18:04] Zack Ufland: I don't know. You tell me.
[00:18:07] Whitney Owens: Well, I dunno. I guess I'm not a website builder.
[00:18:10] Zack Ufland: Well, and I'm thinking like the, like GoDaddy or Wix or some of those other ones where you can kind of build it. I'll tell you my thoughts. The reason why you should not, there's a caveat here, by the way, if you're growing your practice and you only have a limited amount of income, absolutely build your own website.
It's okay. This is as you are progressing and you have the investment, the cash flow to invest in something, I wouldn't lean on your self-built website. Now, this is just me when I, prior to coming in to the therapy world, okay? Or maybe when I was an associate, I can't remember. I remember that my confidence increased.
Based on the professionalism of the website because
[00:19:04] Whitney Owens: Good seeing somebody else.
[00:19:06] Zack Ufland: That's right. For choosing my own therapist.
[00:19:08] Whitney Owens: Oh yeah.
[00:19:11] Zack Ufland: And whenever I see at the bottom created by Wix versus uh, some company that designed it, you can just tell there's a different. Professionalism to it. Now, some people might disagree with me and that's totally okay, but I think unless you're a website builder, you really have to be careful to make sure that the message you're sending through your website is clear.
[00:19:38] Whitney Owens: Totally. I, um, did you make your own website when you started your practice?
[00:19:43] Zack Ufland: I, simple Practice has this feature where you can build your website through them, and it came as, as part of the package. I did that, but because I had that experience where I would go on other therapy practices websites and I would know they were great clinicians, and immediately I would just have this like, oh man, this, I don't know.
I didn't feel like I trusted because it was the first impression. I invested really early on on our website.
[00:20:15] Whitney Owens: Yeah, that's the first impression people have of you as a therapist. And if you can't pull it together, then like, I don't know, is somebody really gonna wanna work with you if you can't present something?
Well,
[00:20:27] Zack Ufland: yeah. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that, you know, I am not suggesting that those that have made their own websites or are less than, are not creating a good impression. You just have to be very careful that if you self-build a website that it looks. Not just good but great.
[00:20:45] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:20:46] Zack Ufland: Um, because it's very easy with those self building websites for it to look just a little bit off.
[00:20:53] Whitney Owens: Well, I sound old, but it was really hard to make a website when I started.
[00:20:58] Zack Ufland: Yeah,
[00:20:59] Whitney Owens: it's a lot easier now and I made mine on WordPress, and WordPress was like a beast back then. Now it's got like templates and stuff. But yeah, I made my own website at first, and when people would call and schedule, I'd be like, I'd say, oh, tell me what it is that drew you to call me, because I wanna know if my marketing's working.
And they'd be like, your website. And I'd be like, really? Are you sure?
[00:21:23] Jingle: Yeah.
[00:21:24] Whitney Owens: Um, but as soon as I got the money to invest in something, that was the first thing. Um, my nanny at the time, her husband was a graphic designer at SCAD and had just graduated and I was like, please pick my website. So he made it and it actually was his doing until I got it done about a year ago.
[00:21:41] Zack Ufland: Wow. That's incredible. It really doesn't have to be that expensive either. You don't have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to fully build out a website. It can literally just be to invest in a landing page. That looks amazing.
[00:21:54] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So I have to add more things here about my pet peeves about websites.
Do not put yourself all over the front page. I just get so sick when I see a therapist who's the very first thing on their website and therapists are, can be so. I'm so judgmental. I'm being the very thing I'm talking about, but like arrogant. Like it's all about me. I got this PhD Master's degree. Come look at me.
Clients don't care. They care about themselves when they come to your website and they wanna feel seen and heard and understood. There is a website I saw the other day and I just about fell outta my chair. It was the therapist's face like it, that's all it was, was her face when you first got to her website.
And of course, as, as a perspective person wanting to learn about this therapist, I thought to myself, well dang, the whole world's about her first thing you see. And that's all you see is a big picture of her face. And so I think. Therapist, we do wanna hear about you. Put it on the about page, put it in a separate area, not the very first thing a client sees when they come to the website.
[00:23:03] Zack Ufland: Yeah. Last thing on, on that point, I think that we sometimes have a bias on like, there are certain things I look for that help me build trust with other people and other professionals, but that doesn't mean that that builds trust with. Everyone else, the general population or the target audience. So like for me, when I see credentials, probably because have credentials that builds trust.
But for the general population, they have no idea what certain letters mean. Some don't even know what the difference between associate and fully licensed means. They just know fully sounds probably better. And so, you know, it's. No, actually what PE most people care about is knowing, okay, do they know what they're doing and can they speak to what I'm actually feeling?
[00:23:57] Whitney Owens: I bet a lot of people just look at the headshot and they say, does that look like a nice person? I'm sure. Does
[00:24:03] Zack Ufland: it look like
[00:24:04] Whitney Owens: a person I could sit and talk to?
[00:24:06] Zack Ufland: A hundred percent. Absolutely. And that's, I was actually doing a, um, doing some consulting the other day and we looked at her website along other therapists.
All we said was, Hey, have you noticed that your headshot is actually a little bit darker than the ones around it? And I bet that that's shifting your 'cause. Your eyes are drawn immediately to the ones that are more light, have more light in on. Oh, and it was kind of amazing to just kind of see something as subtle as that.
She looked great, really kind, great smile, but it was just a darker picture than the ones around her. So. All right. Moving on. You should not say yes to clients who are poor fits.
[00:24:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Tell me,
[00:24:49] Zack Ufland: I'm curious to know your thoughts first.
[00:24:52] Whitney Owens: Well, I didn't know you were gonna do that one, so what you have to say about it.
[00:24:56] Zack Ufland: Okay. I'll, I'll tell you my, my knee jerk thoughts. I, on paper this sounds great. Absolutely. You should. Say yes only to the clients you wanna work with. This is why we own a business because we have certain autonomy and freedom. What about those early stages in a practice in which you don't have that luxury?
So do you take on those clients that you know could lead to, could really stretch, you might lead to some burnout for the sake of financial stability? Or do you. Protect that freedom and say, you know, actually I really only wanna work with this specialty. What do you think?
[00:25:42] Whitney Owens: I think it depends on where you're at in your life.
[00:25:47] Zack Ufland: Interesting.
[00:25:48] Whitney Owens: I mean, if I can't pay my rent, I'll see whatever client calls me.
[00:25:53] Zack Ufland: Yeah.
[00:25:54] Whitney Owens: You know? And I know some people might think that's not good 'cause maybe I don't specialize in substance abuse or eating disorders. That client's coming in. I certainly think there are some specialties. You need to be really careful, which are the ones I actually just said.
[00:26:08] Zack Ufland: Absolutely.
[00:26:08] Whitney Owens: But like, I hate working with couples. I'm gonna be real, I'd suck at it. I've, I could. Zach, I could tell you some really crazy stories about me getting up in a couple in therapy, like it's not good. And I definitely stopped seeing couples because I knew that this was not good for me. But I didn't stop that until I had a group practice where someone else could work with those couples.
[00:26:29] Jingle: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:30] Whitney Owens: Like, are we really gonna say, I'm a professional therapist and when you call me, I'm gonna move you on to somebody else. I think it's so hard for clients to call anyway. I'm a big proponent, actually. I'm seeing anyone and everyone that walks in because I'm a trained professional to help anyone.
Now they come in and I just really can't help them, like really can't. Then I'll refer them out to somebody, but most of the time. We can see most clients, we did go to graduate school.
[00:26:57] Zack Ufland: Yep. That's something you've challenged me in. And so even though I, I put this, you should not, it's more of a tongue in cheek because you really changed my perspective on this because our, our practice is marketed as highly specialized, but like you've said, we've gone to grad school and there are, yes, there are some issues that come up that you need additional training for.
Right? Like if someone says, Hey, I wanna do EMDR. We're not gonna say, oh yeah, they can read about that online. Like they're gonna have some additional training. But yeah, it really depends. I think I, I hadn't considered life stage. I, I more considered practice stage, but I'm sure it's, it's both.
[00:27:37] Whitney Owens: Oh yeah. Hey, if you couldn't feature family, I think you'd be taking whatever client call.
[00:27:42] Zack Ufland: Absolutely.
[00:27:43] Whitney Owens: Absolutely. Um, the thing about EMDR, man, these EMDR therapists listening right now are gonna be like, but. Clients don't know what they need. They dunno what they're doing. It's like me going to the doctor, it's like going into the doctor and walking in saying, I need this medication and this kind of treatment.
I don't know what I need for whatever it is that I've got. So I do think, and we have to do this a lot on the phone, when people call to schedule an appointment, they'll say, I wanna work with an EMDR therapist and we have them, but we say, you know. First, we're gonna do an evaluation, figure out where you're at, teach grounding skills, and then if EMDR seems like the best treatment for you, we will do it.
So I think that it's better for them to just see any kind of therapist first, and then that therapist can refer them for EMDR if they're appropriate for the treatment. These clients are just TikTok and you know, all the other things, and they've decided what they need, but we're the professional in the room to tell them what they need.
[00:28:42] Zack Ufland: Yeah, exactly. I like that. I think you're gonna like the last one.
[00:28:46] Whitney Owens: Okay.
[00:28:46] Zack Ufland: You should not handle tasks yourself just to save money, and what I'm really referring to is you shouldn't hire an admin just to save money. Sorry. You should. You should not just focus on handling tasks alone just because it saves you money in the long run.
[00:29:12] Whitney Owens: Does it save me money in the long run?
[00:29:16] Zack Ufland: I don't know. Maybe that's the, um, maybe that's, that's the difficult question. I know you're a huge proponent, right? Of hire an admin as soon as possible. As soon as possible. Our patient coordinator. Yeah. How soon is too soon? Like where, where is There's not, what's that?
[00:29:37] Whitney Owens: There's not.
Now, did I do it too late? Yes. And do most people do it too late? Yes. If you are thinking, should I hire, you've already waited too long.
[00:29:50] Zack Ufland: That's what I tell people.
[00:29:51] Whitney Owens: I didn't hire my first admin till I had a group practice with two therapists. I was crazy. I was answering the phone. I remember so clearly sitting at my desk.
I had a client in the lobby waiting to see me. But the phone started ringing and I was like, I gotta schedule clients for my therapists, or I'm never gonna grow this thing. I worked all the time and then I got somebody in there and boom, it got so much better after that.
[00:30:19] Zack Ufland: There is something that I tell my consultants, my consulting clients, and that is.
With every decision you make about money, you need to ask yourself, what is the money I could make having spending, investing this money? What is the upside to it? Because if you're just looking at what you're spending, you're gonna make, you're gonna make a non informed decision. So if you hire an admin for X number of dollars, X number of hours a week.
Um, but every time the someone calls, they answer and they schedule 'em. That's immediately paying off this and you're continuing to grow. Let's, let's explore the inverse. If you don't invest upfront, but you're missing calls, you have to spend your time. Time, which is money on tasks and scheduling that you could be spending on building relationships and marketing.
You're saving money, but not really.
[00:31:27] Whitney Owens: Definitely. And there's so many other things that they can do too. Not just taking calls, you know, responding to emails or, um, boy I was so happy the day that when the internet goes out, I've got somebody else calling Comcast and not me. Or when the Spruce app's not working correctly, someone else is troubleshooting that y I'm seeing a client.
That's the worst is to have to deal with that. Or especially if your payment method. Goes kaput, you know, and you're like, oh gosh, I can't charge cards. Like this is terrible. You know, somebody else can be taking care of that while you're working with clients. It's, it's huge. And it's not even just the tasks, to me, it's the emotional support.
Yeah. Like I, I can even sitting here talking to you about, thinking about my first admin that I hired. She was the heart of water's edge for the first two years, you know, and really was my right hand when things would happen. I need someone to pray with me or think about something or talk through something.
Mm-hmm. I always called her and, and now you, you know, it's like I call Lisa now and talk to her about things. So it's these people, they are the backbone of my business because they actually do the work, but also the emotional component of it is important too.
[00:32:38] Zack Ufland: Yeah. And it's amazing how many people, there are more people than you would think that.
Are looking for a job, a part-time flexible position, like in admin work. I mean, we're making a change up here at Paradigm. We're shifting some things. It is amazing how, how much interest we got, truly overwhelming, so,
[00:33:01] Whitney Owens: right.
[00:33:03] Zack Ufland: Okay. Those are my five should stop doing, uh, we agreed on probably most of them and uh, maybe still need to think through some of them.
[00:33:13] Whitney Owens: Well, it's always changing. Right? I, that's what I love about running a business. I'm always learning something new that I should and shouldn't do. And even some of the things we talked about, I probably wouldn't have said no to early in my career. Mm-hmm. But as I've grown and as I've managed more, I'm like, wait, no, I shouldn't do that.
Or I've seen therapists make mistakes. I'm like, you shouldn't be doing that. Yeah. There's so many more we could do. That's, it's fun. It's a fun thing to
[00:33:36] Zack Ufland: talk
[00:33:36] Whitney Owens: about. Yeah.
[00:33:36] Zack Ufland: And how, how often in business are things truly black and white?
[00:33:41] Whitney Owens: They're not,
[00:33:41] Zack Ufland: so
[00:33:42] Whitney Owens: they're not,
[00:33:43] Zack Ufland: that's hard.
[00:33:44] Whitney Owens: All we want is the rules.
[00:33:46] Zack Ufland: Yeah.
[00:33:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. So tell me, um, tell me, Zach, if somebody's listening and they're like, man, that guy knows what he's talking about, do you offer consulting and what does that look like when you work with people?
[00:33:58] Zack Ufland: Yeah. So first I would say I would love to work with you. I really get a lot of energy from meeting people around the country and working with them.
I'm very passionate about. Not just providing wisdom and advice and insight, but also providing emotional support of, Hey, this is difficult to run a group practice. So if you're interested, and I really do specialize in the solo practice stage, or if you're in the solo practice stage and you're going to go ahead and build a group practice, you have a small group practice, I would love to work with you.
So the best way to do that, go to wise practice consulting.com, fill an application, we'll jump on a call. One thing here at Wise Practice we love to do is provide some value on that call before you even sign up for anything. So if that interests you, please sign up. Love to get to know you.
[00:34:47] Whitney Owens: That's great.
So you didn't know I was gonna ask you this, but when you think back on, when you first, can you talk a little bit about. Why you invested in consulting and what that felt like, the fear and the why you did it. And looking back on it, you, did you feel like that was worth what you put into it? Just if somebody's listening and they're curious about it?
[00:35:09] Zack Ufland: Yeah, I think that I had some, some foresight into knowing that if your foundation isn't sturdy. That when you build the rest of the building, it, it can be not that great. And so when I was really thinking early on, uh, about doing consulting, I knew that it was gonna stretch us financially, but I knew the opportunity cost is that later on it could be that much more valuable long term I had, um.
Neil at, uh, Sam Bright, formerly practice at scale, and he used this analogy, I think it was Neil, it might've been you. He used the analogy of, of a bow and arrow that there are seasons in the business that you have to pull back and it's tough and you have to make significant investment before you can launch.
And I knew that there are those who had been along the path and who had made mistakes and who had reversed and had reversed course. Why would I not invest in trying to learn those mistakes? Why would I, you know, make 'em myself if I didn't have to? And so, you know, I've told you this a million times, the amount of money I've saved doing consulting and building a good foundation is incalculable.
So, yeah, that, that was my, my experience and really what led me to want to be a consultant because wanna help people not make the same mistakes. I mean, when I hear other. Practice owners having to borrow 'em money from savings and just the fear and not knowing what to do next. And just the insecurity that comes with all to, to all business owners don't wanna be alone in that.
[00:36:54] Whitney Owens: Certainly not. Yeah. And you know, I did two years of my own consulting, started my group practice. Mm-hmm. And then I've gone through seasons of not consulting and consulting. I certainly have found that when I am in consulting, it usually. Boost me to the next level in my business. And I, I've had, I don't know, I guess three different, three different coaches over the years.
So, you know, I'm doing different things with different people for whatever it is that I'm focused on. But I would never be where I am today without investing in consulting.
[00:37:26] Zack Ufland: And it's a huge investment, but it was worth it. I mean, you really have to, going back to the decision making, is it worth spending this to get to here?
Or am I just avoiding spending this? Yeah. Well it's the road to get to here is gonna be rocky.
[00:37:46] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And I can tell you so many practice owners over the years with Wise Practice that came and seemed interested in consulting and then didn't do it, but then came back three years later and did, and I was, it's great.
I'm glad they came back. Some of 'em haven't. Then I look at it and I'm like, dang, that's so sad. Like you could have gotten this done three years ago and think about where you would be if you hadn't lived in fear all that time.
[00:38:10] Zack Ufland: And last thing here, for those that need support in community, but can't make the jump to one-on-one consulting, do something that allows you to intake wisdom.
Like we have the circle community where, you know, you can jump in and, and have resources in the community. You need wisdom and you need people surrounding you so that they can look at your blind spots.
[00:38:35] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, this has been great. I've enjoyed talking about the things we shouldn't be doing in our practice, and I appreciate you coming on the show.
[00:38:43] Zack Ufland: Thanks so much Whitney.
[00:38:47] Jingle: So click on follow and leave a review and keep on loving this work we do with Whitney Owens and The Wise Practice Podcast, Whitney Owens and The Wise Practice Podcast.
[00:39:04] Whitney Owens: Podcast. Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the Site Craft Podcast Network.
A collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to site craft network.com. The Wise Practice podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice.
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