WP192 | The Truth About Cutting Costs and Growing Your Practice in 2026 with Julie Herres
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Before you cut another expense in your practice, ask yourself this: what is it costing you not to have it?
In this episode of the Wise Practice Podcast, I’m joined by Julie Herres, founder of GreenOak Accounting, to talk about making wise money decisions in your private practice.
Y’all, this has been a challenging year for practice owners. So many of us are feeling the pressure around finances, growth, staffing, marketing, and knowing where to invest our money. It can be tempting to start cutting costs just to feel more in control, but not every expense is the problem.
Julie and I talk about how to look at your numbers with more clarity, how to know whether an expense is actually helping your practice grow, and why cutting something that saves you time or brings in revenue can sometimes cost you more in the long run.
We also get into the habits of successful practice owners, including tracking your data, reviewing your finances regularly, surrounding yourself with the right experts, and making sure your personal lifestyle does not put pressure on your business.
If you’ve been feeling nervous about money, unsure what to cut, or wondering where to invest next in your practice, this conversation will give you some practical things to think through.
In this episode, we cover:
* Why practice owners are feeling more cautious about money right now
* The difference between cutting costs and cutting growth
* How to think about ROI beyond just dollars
* Why tracking your numbers matters so much
* What successful practice owners are doing differently
* When it’s time to get professional help
* How to protect your practice from financial stress
Julie and the GreenOak Accounting team will also be joining us at the Wise Practice Summit in Nashville, Tennessee, October 8–10. If you want to be in the room with other faith-based practice owners and experts who can help you grow with wisdom and clarity, I would love to see you there.
Money Feels Different Right Now
Y’all, I keep hearing it from practice owners everywhere. Money feels different this year.
There is more hesitation. More fear. More uncertainty. Practice owners are looking at their expenses and wondering what they should cut, what they should keep, and what is actually helping their practice grow.
I get it. When things feel tight or uncertain, one of the first things we want to do is open up that expense list and start cutting. We want to feel like we are doing something. We want to feel more in control.
But not every expense is the problem.
Cutting Costs Is Not Always the Same as Making a Wise Financial Decision
In my conversation with Julie Herres of GreenOak Accounting, we talked about how easy it is to start cutting expenses without really thinking through the bigger picture.
There may absolutely be things in your practice that need to go. Maybe you are paying for software you do not use anymore. Maybe there are subscriptions that served a purpose in one season but are no longer needed. Reviewing expenses is a healthy thing to do.
But the question Julie brought up is one every practice owner needs to ask: what is it going to cost me not to have this?
That is such an important shift.
Because sometimes the expense you are cutting is not just an expense. It is saving you time. It is bringing in leads. It is helping you make better decisions. It is keeping you from being pulled into every single part of your business.
Time Has a Cost Too
As practice owners, we can get so focused on the money going out that we forget about the time we are spending when we try to take everything back on ourselves.
If you cut your admin support, those tasks do not magically disappear. Someone still has to answer the phone. Someone still has to respond to inquiries. Someone still has to follow up with clients, handle scheduling, and keep things moving.
And a lot of the time, that someone becomes you.
I shared with Julie that in my own practice, I recently found myself helping answer intake calls because of some staffing changes and vacation time. It was good for me in one sense because it reminded me of what that process feels like. I could see where things needed to be streamlined.
But it was also overwhelming. The phone was ringing. The needs were constant. And while I was doing that, there were other things in my business that only I could do that I was not getting to.
That is the part we often miss.
Opportunity Cost Is Real
When you are pulled into the day-to-day work of your practice, there is always something else you are not doing.
You might not be working on your leadership team. You might not be reviewing your numbers. You might not be building referral relationships. You might not be thinking about your next strategic move.
And then those things stack up.
That is what Julie called opportunity cost. It is not just the money you saved. It is what you lost by saving that money.
Sometimes saving money in one place creates a much bigger cost somewhere else.
The Value of Getting Help
Julie shared such a helpful example from her own business. She had content she knew would make a great course. She knew people wanted it, and she knew it could be valuable.
Could she have figured it all out herself? Probably.
But instead, she worked with someone who knew the process. That person helped her shorten the learning curve, choose the right tools, and actually get the course launched.
And now that course sells every week.
That is a perfect example of a wise investment. It cost money upfront, but it saved time, reduced frustration, and helped create something that continues to bring value into her business.
Not Every DIY Decision Saves You Money
Practice owners are smart people. Therapists are smart people. Could you figure out your own bookkeeping? Probably. Could you build your own website? Maybe. Could you manage your own HR questions, marketing analytics, intake systems, and hiring process? You might be able to figure out pieces of it.
But should you be the one doing all of it?
That is a different question.
There is a point in business where doing everything yourself is not saving you money anymore. It is slowing you down.
And y’all, I see this all the time.
If You Are Not Tracking It, You Cannot Make Wise Decisions
One of the biggest things Julie and I talked about is tracking your numbers.
If you do not know where your leads are coming from, how do you know which marketing is working?
If you do not know your conversion rate, how do you know whether you have a marketing problem or an intake problem?
If you do not look at your P&L, how do you know what is actually happening in your practice?
So many practice owners are tracking data but not actually looking at it. Or they are not tracking it at all.
And then they are making big decisions based on feelings.
Feelings Are Helpful, But They Are Not the Whole Picture
I am not saying feelings do not matter. I am a very emotional person. I care deeply about what I do. I know what it feels like to be pulled into something emotional in the business and then have a hard time switching back into strategy mode.
But when it comes to money, we need more than feelings.
We need numbers. We need reports. We need data. We need to know what is actually happening so we can make decisions with clarity.
That is why Julie reviews her numbers every Friday. It does not have to take hours. For her, it is a quick check-in to see what cash is coming in, what is going out, and whether things are where they need to be.
That kind of rhythm helps you catch problems before they become huge.
Your Marketing Might Not Be the Problem
I have had so many conversations with practice owners who say, “My marketing is not working.”
But then, when I ask about their analytics, they do not know what the numbers say.
Sometimes marketing is actually bringing in calls, but the practice is not converting those calls. That is not a marketing problem. That is an intake problem.
I worked with a practice owner who thought she needed to stop paying for a marketing service. But when we looked at the data, we realized the service was bringing in leads. The issue was that only about 30% of calls were converting.
Once she fixed the intake issue and hired the right person, she started getting more clients without spending more money on marketing.
That is why the numbers matter.
Look at the Whole Client Experience
Julie shared a really practical idea that I love. Have someone outside your practice go through your client experience.
Ask a friend, neighbor, or someone who does not know your system to go to your website and try to figure out what to do next. Do they know whether to call, email, text, or fill out a form? Is the process clear? How long does it take someone to get back to them? Is it easy to schedule?
We are in 2026. People expect things to move quickly.
If your process is confusing or slow, potential clients may move on before they ever become a client. That does not always mean your marketing is broken. It may mean your website, intake process, or follow-up system needs attention.
Successful Practices Are Not Accidental Anymore
Julie said something that really stuck with me. In 2020 and 2021, some people kind of accidentally grew big practices. The demand was high, and growth happened quickly.
But that is not the same environment we are in now.
In 2026, profitable practices are still possible. Growing practices are still possible. But it is not accidental anymore.
It has to be intentional.
You Can Delegate, But You Cannot Abdicate
As the owner, you do not have to do everything. In fact, you should not do everything.
But you do have to know what is going on.
You can delegate tasks, responsibilities, and systems. You can build a team. You can hire experts. But you cannot completely hand off responsibility and then be surprised when something goes wrong.
The buck still stops with you.
That means you need rhythms for checking in. You need meetings. You need reports. You need conversations. You need to understand the health of your practice, even if you are not the one doing every single task.
Stay in Your Zone of Genius
Successful practice owners know what their time is worth.
They are not spending hours trying to fix a website issue if they have someone who can do that faster and better. They are not getting stuck in every little operational problem. They are directing traffic.
That does not mean they are checked out. It means they know where their energy is most valuable.
As your practice grows, your job changes. You move from doing everything to leading the people and systems that keep the practice moving.
Your Personal Lifestyle Affects Your Business
This is such an important conversation, and I am so glad Julie brought it up.
As a practice grows, of course I want the owner to take home more money. I want practice owners to enjoy the fruit of their hard work. I want you to take the vacation, enjoy your family, and spend money on things that matter to you.
But your business can get into trouble if your personal lifestyle grows so much that you have to take every penny out of the practice.
There are seasons of growth, and there are seasons where things slow down. A key clinician leaves. Referrals shift. Expenses go up. Something unexpected happens.
If your personal expenses require the business to perform perfectly every single month, that puts a lot of pressure on your practice.
Profit Has a Job to Do
Julie said this so well. Profit is technically yours, but it has a lot of heavy lifting to do.
It has to pay you. It has to fund growth. It has to pay debt. It has to cover taxes. And some of it needs to stay in the business to protect the practice.
You cannot take every penny out and expect the business to stay healthy.
That does not mean you never enjoy your money. It means you are wise with it.
Choose What Matters to You
Not everyone cares about the same things, and that is okay.
Some people care about cars. Some people care about clothes. Some people care about travel. Some people care about experiences with their family.
There is no judgment in that.
The issue is when we start buying everything because we think that is what a successful practice owner is supposed to do. If you are making decisions based on comparison, that is going to get dangerous fast.
Know what actually matters to you. Spend intentionally. Save intentionally. Invest intentionally.
Stop Avoiding the Big Thing
Julie also talked about how practice owners sometimes spend their time on things that do not really move the needle.
They will spend an hour trying to save $20 on an internet bill while avoiding the bigger issue in the practice. Maybe it is compensation. Maybe it is conversion. Maybe it is leadership. Maybe it is a service that is not profitable.
That hit home for me because I see it all the time, and I do it too.
We all want to do the easier tasks when the bigger thing feels scary. But the bigger thing is usually what actually needs our attention.
Accountability Helps You Face What Matters
For me, accountability is huge.
I need someone who is going to ask me if I did the thing. I need a coach or consultant who will tell me what I need to hear and then expect me to follow through.
Sometimes I will push back in the moment. I will argue. I will say it is not worth my time. And then, when the call is over, I go do the thing and realize it was exactly what I needed.
That kind of accountability matters.
Julie shared that when she is avoiding something, she sets a timer for 30 minutes. She tells herself she only has to work on it for that amount of time. Most of the time, once she starts, she keeps going.
Sometimes we just need a way to break the cycle of avoidance.
What to Do If You Feel Scared About Money
If you are feeling nervous about money in your practice right now, start by looking at the numbers.
Look at what is actually happening in your practice. Look at how much you can reasonably take home based on where the practice is right now, not where you wish it were.
Look at what you are spending personally. A lot of people do not have a personal budget, and there is no shame in that. But if things feel tight, it is time to look.
Look at your business expenses. Let go of what you truly do not use. Combine tools where you can. Pay attention to software or services that no longer serve the practice.
But before you cut something that may be bringing in revenue, saving time, or supporting growth, slow down and ask what it will cost you not to have it.
Get Professional Help Before It Is Too Late
One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that you do not have to do this alone.
If you are in a difficult financial situation, get help. That might mean an accountant. It might mean a coach. It might mean an attorney, HR professional, billing expert, or marketing strategist.
You need people in your corner who can look at your situation objectively and help you make wise decisions.
And please do not wait until things are too far gone.
Get help before you are taking out loans with terrible interest rates. Get help before you are making decisions that are hard to reverse. Get help before the hole feels too deep.
There is wisdom in getting support early.
You Do Not Have to Carry It Alone
Being a practice owner can feel lonely.
There are decisions you cannot put on your team. There are financial realities you may not want to share with everyone. There are hard calls that are yours to make.
But that does not mean you have to carry it all by yourself.
Get the right people around you. Look at your numbers. Track your data. Protect your practice. Make decisions with wisdom instead of fear.
And remember, y’all, cutting expenses is not the goal.
Building a healthy, sustainable, profitable practice is the goal.
Meet Julie Herres
Julie Herres has helped hundreds of private practice owners gain financial freedom. Founder of GreenOak Accounting, the country’s largest firm serving healthcare private practices, Julie is an accountant, consultant, speaker, author of Profit First for Therapists and host of the Therapy for Your Money podcast.
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[00:00:00] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. I'm a group practice owner and faith-based practice consultant, and I'm here to tell you that you can have it all. Wanna grow your practice? Wanna grow your faith? Wanna enjoy your life outside of work? You've come to the right place. Each week on the Wise Practice Podcast, I will give you the action steps to have a successful faith-based practice while also having a good time.
Now let's get started
[00:00:29] Jingle: Where she grows your practice, she don't play. She does business with a twist of faith. It's Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice podcast. Whitney Owens and the Wise Practice podcast
[00:00:47] Whitney Owens: Hey, friends. Thank you so much for being with me today here on the Wise Practice Podcast. I absolutely love doing this show and love helping you grow and scale your faith-based practice. And today is a excellent interview because I interview a tax professional, money professional, Julie Ayers, who's the owner of GreenOak Accounting.
This is a challenging year for practice owners. I'm hearing across the board stress about finances, what to put our money into, what I shouldn't put my money into to be able to grow my practice, 'cause we know that we have to make wise investments. So in today's episode, I'm talking with Julie, a tax expert, about that, and then next week you're gonna hear from a marketing expert, where we're gonna talk about how to invest your marketing dollars.
So these episodes are all about money investments that are wise and good for you, taught by the experts. Now, what's even better, as if there is better, is we are gonna be in person for the Wise Practice Summit in Nashville, Tennessee October 8th through the 10th. These sponsors will be at your fingertips, so you will be able to pick the brains of amazing experts.
You'll also be able to be with other practice owners that are faith-based, that are growing their practice, and be able to learn strategies and tools for any phase that you are in your practice. That could be that you're just starting a private practice and you're not sure what next steps to take, but you want to meet other private practice owners and make connections, or maybe you're making your first hires of therapists.
Maybe you're still figuring out, how do I grow a solo caseload? How do I get to my ideal client? Or maybe you're a large group practice, you're a seven-figure practice, and you are overwhelmed, and you're like, "How do I scale appropriately?" These are all the topics that we're gonna address at the summit, and we're gonna address them with a faith-based perspec- perspective.
We're gonna talk about marketing, we're gonna talk some clinical, and you're gonna have some candid conversations with amazing people. The relationships that people create take them to the next level. So I want you to join me in Nashville, Tennessee this October. You can get more information on the website, wisepracticeconsulting.com.
You can also get more information in the show notes of this episode, but I really want you to be there. If you've been listening to this podcast for s- quite some time and you find this helpful, the summit is gonna blow your mind. Can't wait. I, I just love being in person. All right. So that's some about the summit.
I'll be talking about it for the next few weeks 'cause I want you to know more, make an informed decision, and do what works for you. But till then, we are gonna be meeting every week here on the podcast, and today you're gonna hear from my conversation with Julie. We're gonna talk about the truth in cutting your costs in your practice, we're gonna talk about what actually drives profitability, and then we're gonna make some smart financial decisions that are gonna help you with your practice growth.
Stay tuned.
Well, today on the podcast we have a returning and fabulous guest, Julie Herres, who has helped hundreds of practice owners gain financial freedom. She is the founder of GreenOak Accounting, the country's largest firm serving healthcare private practices. Julie is an accountant, consultant, speaker, and author of Profit First for Therapists, and host of the Therapy for Your Money podcast.
Julie, thanks for coming on the show today.
[00:04:07] Julie Herres: So good to be back here with you, Whitney. Thanks for
[00:04:10] Whitney Owens: having me. Certainly. Yes. I just have such fond memories of all of our times together at conferences. Yes. And so I just feel so happy when we get to, when we get to be together. Um, not only do you have a wealth of knowledge, but you're also just so much fun.
[00:04:23] Julie Herres: Oh, well, thank you. Back at you. I always enjoy hanging out with you at events.
[00:04:27] Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah. Well, in case anyone doesn't know you, can you share a little bit kind of where you live, you got kids, you know, a little bit about you- Ooh ... and then we'll kind of jump into this topic- Yeah ... about money.
[00:04:38] Julie Herres: Money. We're talking money today.
Uh, I'm Julie Herres, GreenOak Accounting. I am an accountant and lover of numbers. Um, I love, love, love working with therapists. That's what we've done for the last 10 years over at GreenOak Accounting. And I'm a mom. I have three school-aged kids, um, one that's just started driving, and my baby, who's not a baby, is in elementary school still.
So kind of I've, I've had this business always while being a mom, and so that's the two things that I have juggled the entire time. So I get in, get my work done, and then get out, 'cause there's a lot of stuff to be done. So I like efficiency. And yeah, I love to talk about money, and I talk about that a lot on my podcast, Therapy for Your Money.
[00:05:25] Whitney Owens: That's right. That's right.
[00:05:27] Julie Herres: Money. Sprinkled in there, I also wrote two books, so, you know, there's that. Like, I, I- Sure did ... looking back, I'm, oh, I'm never sure, like how did I manage to do that? Like, how do I find town- time for all of these things? But some- somehow it all comes together.
[00:05:40] Whitney Owens: Well, uh, of course, I think it's 'cause you're my fellow Enneagram 1 and we, like, are determined and passionate.
And when we decide we wanna do something... My husband's always like, I'll come to an idea and I'm like, "What about this? What about this?" And he goes, "Look, Whitney, you don't need my feedback. You're gonna do whatever you're gonna do."
[00:05:55] Julie Herres: True. True story.
[00:05:56] Whitney Owens: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just gonna get it done. See, you're after my own heart.
Yeah.
[00:05:59] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:06:00] Whitney Owens: Wonderful. And so I just wanna emphasize the fact that GreenOak is specifically for practice owners. Yeah. Like, I think there's so many practice owners out there looking for an accountant and looking for someone to just, can help with their finances in general, not just doing the taxes, but, like, helping provide advice and understanding.
And so that's what I love about GreenOak, is that you've been here for a long time. Yeah. Have a lot of knowledge about practice owners, and can bring that to the table.
[00:06:26] Julie Herres: Yeah. And there's just a lot of questions that a generalist accountant can't answer, right? And that's ultimately, like, how my business was born and why it was born, is yeah, of course, a, a, you know, the accountant on the corner is probably great and they can do an accurate tax return, right?
That's not a problem. It's just when you're going to them and asking very, uh, industry specific questions like, "How much can I afford to pay this person?" Like, "When is it time to get an intake coordinator, a, an admin? When do I need leadership?" Like, they just don't know because they haven't worked with a lot of other people like you.
Or if they have, it's, like, one or two. Whereas, like, we've worked with hundreds of practices. We know, like, the, the financial milestones that you need to hit and what you can and should expect from your practice.
[00:07:10] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, when we were chatting before we started recording about topics we wanted to talk about, I asked Julie- Is she seeing the same trend of people seem more hesitant this year, practice owners seem more maybe fearful, I'm still trying to kind of put my finger on it, about money.
Money just seems different this year- Mm-hmm ... that I'm noticing with practice owners in the way they're talking about it. Curious if you're seeing that as well.
[00:07:36] Julie Herres: Yeah. Um, I do think there's just a lot of financial uncertainty right now, right? Rising gas prices, inflation is up, all of the things, and so that, that often makes people kind of just tense up a little bit and really hesitate to spend money.
And so what we're seeing is a lot of people kind of looking at, "Here's the expense list. What can I get rid of?" And that's a normal thing to do, right? Like, I think that's a great exercise to do once a year anyways. There are probably things that you're spending on, whether personally or in the business, that you don't need anymore, right?
It served a purpose, you don't need it anymore. So that's a really good thing. Um, but sometimes they're just cutting, like, indiscriminately, right? We're taking this out, we're taking that out. And when you're cutting, I think you just also always need to ask yourself, like, "What is it going to cost me not to have this?"
Right? Mm. 'Cause a lot of times there is an exchange of if that item was providing a return on investment or ROI, like, what is it costing you to not have that expense, right? Is it going to reduce your revenue? Right? What are the downstream consequences of this financial decision that you're making?
That's an im- really important consideration.
[00:08:45] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I, I think what you're saying is so important. You look at a list, you wanna cut something, but you aren't thinking about w- what you're losing by cutting it. You're just thinking about, "Oh, I wanna save this money," but you're not thinking about the ramifications of that item.
[00:09:01] Julie Herres: Yeah. So really, if we wanna dig in a little bit, when you're spending money on something, usually that means that you're not spending time, right? And that time has a compounding cost. So when you are spending money on a service, that's something that you are not DIY-ing. And so, like, if you are saving, for example, on admin or intake, great.
Like, that still has to be done, right? And so probably you are taking that on, and I know we were just talking about that in, in, you know, in your practice. But, you know, someone's gotta do it, and either it's n- it's not being done or it's not being done well or it's being done but it's kind of low on the priority list.
But ultimately it has to, to get done or else there is a f- a negative financial repercussion on the practice, right? You could say that about, about marketing, about working with an accountant, working with a coach, right? A lot of times we're, we're trading dollars for time. So when you're working with a coach, for example, you might be trading all of that time of, like, figuring it out on your own, right, the trial and error.
You are shortening that by a significant amount. Oh,
[00:10:06] Whitney Owens: yeah.
[00:10:07] Julie Herres: When you're working with an accountant, right, like, could you figure out how to do your bookkeeping on your own? Sure, you probably can, right? You're all smart people as, as therapists, but, like, should you be spending your time doing that? Are you doing it as well as someone who actually has a degree?
Probably not, right? But so we're shortening the amount of time and, like, how do you get to a state where you actually have good, solid financial reports that you can trust? That's gonna go a lot faster if you are working with a professional, right? So there's always that give and take of, like, what is it co- gonna cost you in time, and then also future opportunity as well.
[00:10:41] Whitney Owens: Totally. I have so many examples and stories running through my head- Yeah ... as I'm listening to you. I remember a practice owner I was doing consulting with and I gave her one piece of advice and she was like, "Oh my gosh, you just saved me $1,000."
[00:10:53] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:10:53] Whitney Owens: And I was like, "Yep, one piece of advice." Yeah. And so that can go so far, you don't know what you don't know.
E-
[00:11:01] Julie Herres: exactly. Like, d- do you have other, other examples you want, you wanna share?
[00:11:05] Whitney Owens: Well, I'm thinking about what we were talking about right before we got on. So currently, just for listeners, my practice, we have two intake coordinators to answer phones and then I also have a director over the intake department.
So technically I've got three people before it gets to me to have to answer the phone. One got... is no longer here. Um, another one went on vacation. Mm. And so it was just the director and me on a Monday to take calls. And so I was taking calls yesterday, and it's grounding, it's good for me to remember- Sure
the process and then I'm like, "Oh, we need to streamline this or that and the other." But I'm like literally getting chest pains while I'm like taking calls. 'Cause it was ringing so much. But it wasn't just that, it was all the other things that I as a business owner needed to get to that I couldn't get to.
[00:11:52] Julie Herres: Yeah. The opportunity cost, right? Like all the things that still exist on your to-do list and are stacking and you're either gonna do them at night or h- it, you know, it's gonna get pushed back days or weeks. Yeah.
[00:12:04] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And so I think so much of it is, yeah, it's the financial part that we're talking about, but it's the part beyond that.
It's what you're not getting to. Mm. It's what's hurting in your business because you didn't pay attention to it 'cause you were so in it you didn't get to work on it. And for me, I ha- I'm a pretty emotional person. I'm passionate about what I do and so the emotional component for me is also something.
Like if I get pulled into something emotional that I have to take care of, it's hard for me to come back into my business and do the things I need. Like, like an employee situation or something like that. So when I have a coach, someone to kind of help with that, helps me kind of regulate and think through things, that's worth a lot of money to me.
[00:12:47] Julie Herres: 100%. Yeah.
[00:12:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I,
[00:12:49] Julie Herres: an example that I have, like for my business, is a couple of years ago I was... I had this content that I wanted to put together in a course, right? I knew like- Uh-huh ... this is valuable. People want it. They ask for it. It, and, and I wanted a way to just kind of package that outside of our monthly accounting services.
Yes. And so c- am I smart enough to eventually figure out how to put that together, how to do curriculum, like how to post it and market it and all that? Like, yeah, I probably could eventually figure it out, but I worked with someone who just shortened all that. They said, "Go here, do this. This is the setting that you need," blah, blah, blah, right?
Like, just here's the to-do list, and I can just go straight down the list instead of looking at like, well, should I use this platform or that one or that one? And like, it was just all answered for me. And so, yeah, I had to spend some money on that, but then it shortened the amount of time it took me to get that live so much that I, like, I would pay that again and again, right?
Like, it just made a lot of sense.
[00:13:48] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And so that course, have you sold it?
[00:13:51] Julie Herres: Yeah. It sells- And how? ... like every single week it sells.
[00:13:54] Whitney Owens: So are you making more than what you put into-
[00:13:57] Julie Herres: Oh, it's so much. Yeah. Oh. Like, that, that, that, that has paid for itself, I don't know, a lot of times over at this point. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, definitely.
[00:14:05] Whitney Owens: Yeah. And I'm curious, if you hadn't had help, do you think you would've gotten stuck along the way?
[00:14:11] Julie Herres: 100%, yeah.
[00:14:12] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:12] Julie Herres: Definitely. Like, if I may, another, another, um, example from my business is we have outsourced HR, right? Like a fractional HR person. Mm-hmm. Because we don't need a whole HR person.
We're not big enough for that. And some months we need nothing from HR, and other months we need a lot of things from HR, right? But, like, that... It... I see it almost as a, an insurance policy. Mm-hmm. Like, if we need it, it's gonna be there, and oh my gosh, it's gonna be so much faster than, "There's a problem.
Let's try to find someone. How do we deal with it? I'm ChatGPT-ing this," and, like, maybe we're doing it right, maybe we're not. I mean, so having that just available at your disposal can be so valuable. 'Cause, like, if you have the question, it's usually urgent, right? I feel that way about HR, about attorneys, about accountants.
Like, you don't have three weeks to go interview people and find someone. Like, you need an answer pretty quickly, and so to have that person just there and ready is super valuable.
[00:15:11] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Going back to your story about the course, couple years ago I started the NBCC process. Mm-hmm. And I got almost there. I was probably 70, 80% there, and it's a lot of work.
[00:15:22] Julie Herres: I
[00:15:23] Whitney Owens: heard. And I just couldn't finish. I got too tired. There were too many things. I was growing my business. And so now I actually took my tax refund and am now paying somebody to get it done for me, 'cause it's, to me, it's very important. Yeah. But that goes back to what you just said. It was like I now have used all that time and energy years ago and didn't get where I wanted to go, and now, um, hopefully I will.
[00:15:45] Julie Herres: Yeah, I hope so. And you're totally right, where you invested so much, and if you just get 80% there, the result is the same as 0%, right? Mm-hmm. And it ju- it doesn't feel great. And sometimes we just, we do have to trial and error things, but I... Getting back to our original, uh, l- line of thought is, like, sometimes you, you do have to spend money on things that are going to have a return on investment, right?
We're not talking about, like, buying tchotchkes for the office. But, like, if you are, are paying for things that are going to really help you accelerate the business, sometimes those are, are worth it. But it's hard to know if it is if you're not tracking anything.
[00:16:28] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:28] Julie Herres: Right? Like, if you don't have financials, if you don't have metrics, if you don't know where your leads are coming from, like, how do you know which marketing is working?
How do you know which marketing to cut, right? Whitney, how often do you see in a therapist Facebook group someone say, like, "I'm not getting any leads from Psychology Today. Why am I paying $30 a month?" Like, okay, it's $30 a month, but, like, do you know where your leads are coming from? And, like, how are you leaning into that?
What are you doing to track that? And are you then, like, spending more time and money and attention on the things that are working? Or sometimes it's like, have you updated your Psychology Today profile in the last decade? Maybe not.
[00:17:08] Whitney Owens: Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I would say almost every person I do consulting with, we go back and learn how to track data.
[00:17:18] Julie Herres: Hmm.
[00:17:18] Whitney Owens: Because almost every person is not tracking their data, or they are tracking their data, but they're not actually looking at it. So it's doing its what it's supposed to do, but they don't take the time to see it.
[00:17:29] Julie Herres: To look. Okay.
[00:17:30] Whitney Owens: Yes. And I, I bet you specifically see this with money. I mean- Absolutely ... so many practice owners in my mastermind group right now, we're doing, we're doing looking at our OPEX, looking what we pay ourselves, but so many of them are like, "Oh, a P&L report?"
or, "I don't look at that," or... And I'm like, "The money is one of the most important things in your business. You need to be looking at it several times a month at least."
[00:17:50] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Um, you know, I, that's... Obviously, I'm very partial to Profit First, right? Ob- obviously, I wrote my book is Profit First For Therapists, but I still look at, uh, you know, in my own business, which I'm an accountant, right, like I love numbers.
I look every Friday. That's just what I do. I look at what, what is going on, what is the cash coming in, what is the cash going out, like where are we? And it's not long, right? It's just maybe a 10, 15-minute check of like is everything what it's supposed to be, and then I'm on my way. But like you have to... If you're not looking, you don't know what's going on in the business, and it can take so long to catch problems.
What is your cadence? How often are you looking at your money?
[00:18:32] Whitney Owens: Uh, every other week.
[00:18:33] Julie Herres: Every other week, okay.
[00:18:34] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I have an accountant that sends me my Profit First, and then I go through and I look at it to make sure everything's in check and do the percentages, and you know, and then if it's not, I can quickly see it and make adjustments.
[00:18:45] Julie Herres: Yeah. Where you know- You know? ... what's going on.
[00:18:47] Whitney Owens: Yeah. But as far as our intake calls, you know, we're looking that data and our analytics on Google and all that kind of stuff, we're looking at that every week.
[00:18:55] Julie Herres: Okay.
[00:18:55] Whitney Owens: And then figuring out where are we missing things. But even when you're talking about the marketing, I've had so many practice owners, I get on a call with them, and they say, "My marketing's not working.
I'm investing all this money." And I'm like, "Okay. What's your analytics showing you?" And they're like, "What? I don't know. I'm not getting as many inquiries." And this other practice owner I worked with, we got- we started doing that, and we ended up finding out they were only converting 30% of the calls. And like you want to stop paying for this service- Oh
that's actually getting you more calls, but you're not converting the calls.
[00:19:25] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:19:26] Whitney Owens: So that's your problem. And so then she went and hired a new person, and now she's getting more inquiries without spending any more money.
[00:19:33] Julie Herres: Um, I think that's amazing. One thing that we have been recommending to a lot of our, of our clients, 'cause we're not marketing people, right?
So, so sometimes we'll hear the same thing, like, "Oh, the marketing's not working." Mm. And our recommendation has been like, "Well, are you sure it's the marketing or is there something else?" Like, have someone who's unrelated to your practice, right, a neighbor, a friend. Do not coach them. Have them go through the process of- Yes
finding your website, getting on your website. Do they know what they need to do? Do they need to call or email or text or fill out the form? How clear is it? How long does it take someone to get back to them? Like, how simple was it to get an intake appointment? And the, it, and you will often be surprised.
Like, you know your own system, so you can navigate it easily. But other people might not be able to. And we're in 2026, like, people are expecting things to move quickly, right? Yes. Like, go, go, go. And so if it's complicated, they, maybe the system just needs to be updated. And so that's free, but if your, you know, a- as you said, like, if, if your website is losing people, then it's not a marketing problem, it's a website problem, right?
Like, there's so many different places where the issue could be that you need to look at all of them.
[00:20:44] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. All right, I got a question that's been going through my head- Okay ... as we're talking. You have worked with practice owners for years. Mm-hmm. And you probably see decisions or habits of successful businesses, successful practice owners.
As their businesses have grown, you've watched it. So I'm curious, what are those habits that you're seeing from successful practice owners?
[00:21:06] Julie Herres: Mm. Yeah. And I will say, it's still very much possible to run a successful, profitable practice in 2026, right? That still definitely exists. Oh, yes. Is it... I- I think it's no longer accidental, right?
In 2020, 2021, we were seeing people like, "Oops, I have a million dollar practice. I don't know how this even happened. Like, I'm making all this money. What do I do with it?" That no longer exists. That's, it's intentional. It's not accidental. You're laughing, but you know it's true, right?
[00:21:32] Whitney Owens: That's so funny, and it, it is true.
[00:21:35] Julie Herres: Like, that's how it was. So it's very intentional. You are, you are ultimately- it, right? As the owner. So you can definitely delegate, and you should delegate a lot of things, but you still, you cannot abdicate responsibility, right? So ultimately- Yeah ... like you have to be tracking the things, and having the conversations, and having the meetings to make sure that you understand what's going on in your practice.
Because even if you say like, "Oh, well I didn't know they were doing this over here," it still ends, the buck ends with you, right? Like, it is still ultimately your responsibility, so you need to, to know what is going on in the practice. Successful practice owners are typically surrounding themselves with a team of experts, right?
So they are not DIYing everything. They know how much their time is worth. Mm. How valuable their time is, and they're going to do everything they can to stay in their zone of genius. Mm. And that is often not figuring out something completely new, right? Like when, when there is enough money in the practice, like you're best served by saying like, "I've identified the problem.
This is the person who's going to solve it," right? And so you're kind of directing traffic more than taking it all on your shoulders. So if there's a website problem. Mm. You're not in there like tic- tinkering in WordPress. You've got the WordPress person who's like y- you're gonna send the problem to them.
They're gonna fix it, report back to you. Okay, like you're just directing traffic. But there's so much traffic, if you stop to, to take every problem to yourself, like it's slowing down the whole, the whole practice. So that's another piece. A third item I will say is you've gotta be really intentional with your personal lifestyle.
Yeah. Possibly unpopular, but as a practice starts doing better, I definitely want the practice owner to be taking more home and doing better. But I have seen many times in the last couple of years, like, practice owners paint themselves into a corner where they're kind of assuming, like, this growth will continue on forever and will never stop, right?
And there are plateaus in a business. There are seasons of growth and then maybe a season of retraction. Like, a, one of your heavy hitters leaves or something happens in the practice and you're just suddenly making less money. And if you've, if you've painted yourself in a corner, if you have increased your lifestyle to a point where you need to take every penny out of that business, you are actually putting your business at risk.
And I do see that happen. So I just think there's... In the good years it's really easy to think it will always be a good year, and that's just not the truth. That's just not how small business works. It's not a question of if something will go wrong, it's a question of when something will go wrong. And you need to protect your practice and protect yourself.
That means an emergency fund in the business, an emergency fund personally, but just living within your means, right? Just because you can take home $15,000 a month doesn't mean that your expenses should become $15,000 a month, right?
[00:24:29] Whitney Owens: Mm.
[00:24:29] Julie Herres: That's kinda what I mean where you can enjoy it, save it, go on a nice vacation.
But, like, that doesn't mean that you should buy a house that's three time the size or, like, incre- you know, increase your, your home and your car and all the kids go to private school now, and, like, everything in your life costs exponentially more money and you're kind of stuck. That's a, a dangerous place to be.
You know, do spend some money. Do drive a nicer car if that's what you care about. But, like, you ch- ch- pick the things that c- matter to you, not necessarily all the things.
[00:24:58] Whitney Owens: I am so glad you brought that up. Did you... You could see my face like, "Oh, oh." Yes. I do see this with practice owners.
[00:25:05] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:25:05] Whitney Owens: Where someone will tell me how stressed they are about their finances and then tell me about a trip to Greece that they're about to go on for two weeks.
And I'm like, "How can you run your practice," you know, and like do all these things, not... I mean, vacations are great. But yeah, I certainly think people are living beyond their means. Mm-hmm. And we feel like we have to. I, I don't really know what it's all about. But... And then they're stressed about the money and their business.
It's just not worth it.
[00:25:27] Julie Herres: It's not. Yeah. It's not worth it. And I just think as the, the practice owner, like, your primary responsibility is to ensure the survival of the practice. And so that does mean, like, you have to leave some money in, right? The profit is technically yours, right? And I, I do want you to take it, but that profit, it has some heavy lifting to do.
It has to pay you. It has to fund your expansion if you want to expand. It has to pay any debts you have, and it has to pay taxes. So it's not technically all yours, right? Some of it has to stay in the business to keep it operating in the form of retained earnings, right? Like, that money always- stays yours.
It is yours, but you just can't take, like, every penny of profit out of the business or the, the business is, is unprotected.
[00:26:11] Whitney Owens: Totally. Yeah, I've actually been spending a... And we've talked about this, is spending a lot of my profits in investments.
[00:26:17] Julie Herres: Yeah. You
[00:26:18] Whitney Owens: know? And we're about to purchase our second building, which is exciting- That's incredible
if I've told you about that.
[00:26:22] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:26:22] Whitney Owens: Um, but yeah. It feels good even though I'm like, "Hey, I'd rather buy a nice house for me and my family," and we'll get there one day. But, like, I can have this great building, which is a great investment in my retirement, where I'm building- Yeah ... and I'll always have that. And so I, I certainly think practice owners should be considering those things as well.
[00:26:39] Julie Herres: Yeah, and, and I think what is ultimately important to each person is different, right? And, and- Yeah ... that's where, like, the comparison game is just not helpful. Some people care about cars. I personally do not. I don't care about cars. I have a very old car. Could I buy another car if I wanted to? Yeah, probably, but, like, I j- I just don't care.
I don't want that. But I love experiences, uh, specifically experiences with my, my, my family and my kids. Like, so that's... I save up for that, and when there's money, I spend it on that. And, like, that's what I personally lo- love. But everyone has a thing. Like, some people care about clothes or designer bags or whatever the, your thing is.
Like, zero judgment. It's just if you're buying all the things because you think that's what you should have as a one, three, five million dollar practice owner, like-
[00:27:25] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm ... who ca- Totally agree with everything you're saying. And yeah, it's kind of like what we went back to our business. Like, return on investment can mean so many different things to a lot of people.
Like, if I can do something that saves me time or I don't have to think about something- Mm-hmm ... I'll put a lot more money into that maybe than other people will, 'cause I'm just like, "I can't take these things on."
[00:27:44] Julie Herres: Yeah, yeah. Well, and, and maybe one other item, like, if we were looking at successful practice owner versus someone who's, who's struggling.
Struggling sometimes i- is a little bit of a mindset, right? Where I'll see practice owners like- They'll spend an hour on the phone to save $20 from their internet provider, which like, okay, great. I mean, that $20 a month, okay. That's $20. Your time is worth so much more than that. But also, if you're doing that at the expense of you're ignoring the big thing, right?
Where- Yes ... you have some compensation issues and, like, that's where really you can s- save 20 bucks, but if, like, your big problem is over here, that is not gonna move the needle, right? And you're avoiding the really important things by doing all this kind of busy work. That's not helpful. So when I think of a successful practice owner, like they are spending most of their time on revenue-generating activities versus just trying to maybe reduce expenses slightly, right?
Yes. Like, we're really looking at the big picture of, yeah, I could save $20 or I could go talk to the pediatrician across town who sends us a, a bunch of referrals and, like, make sure that they have our business cards or pamphlets or whatever. Like, that's probably gonna generate exponentially more dollars into the practice than, like, saving, saving 20 bucks.
And really- Agreed ... you could do both, right? But, like, should you be the one calling? You know, calling the internet provider? Eh, probably not.
[00:29:07] Whitney Owens: Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head with practice owners are distracted by the things that don't really matter 'cause they don't wanna look at the things that do.
[00:29:15] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. And
[00:29:16] Whitney Owens: like- I see that all the time, and I have my current mastermind group that I'm working with, I'm like, "Wow, like, your homework is this. You have to post it here. You have to tell me that you did it," and you know, they... It's hard. It's hard to face things. Like, it takes so much courage, and I'm so proud of them.
But yeah, we wanna do all the other things. I do it, too. I wanna do all the other tasks 'cause I don't wanna deal with this big thing I need to actually face, but that's the very thing that's gonna move the needle forward.
[00:29:40] Julie Herres: Mm. Yeah. I have also absolutely been guilty of that, you know, at, at various times.
Like, we all do it, but just... But how do you snap yourself out of it? Like, y- at some point you recognize, like, "Okay, I've been avoiding this." Do you have any tricks for snapping yourself out?
[00:29:54] Whitney Owens: I guess everybody's a little different, but I need accountability.
[00:29:57] Julie Herres: Okay.
[00:29:58] Whitney Owens: Like, if I know that my coach is waiting on me to get back to them and tell them this thing, I can't tell you how many times I get into a consulting session, you know, when I'm the consultee, and he will say to this, I will fight.
I will argue. I'll be like, "No, that's a waste of time," and as soon as we're done, I actually will go do the thing and then it'll actually be exactly what I needed to do. Yeah. But it's like that accountability piece, huge.
[00:30:21] Julie Herres: Got it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I like to, when I'm avoiding something-
[00:30:26] Whitney Owens: Uh-huh ...
[00:30:26] Julie Herres: I put a timer on my phone.
I tell myself like, "Okay, you're gonna spend 30 minutes on this, and after 30 minutes you don't have to keep going." But usually I will keep going, right? But I need to know like this is not forever. I can just like, "It's gonna be hard. I'm gonna get in there for 30 minutes and I'm gonna do it." Mm-hmm. And usually I'll take a little break after and then like get back in, because I've, I've just kind of broken the cycle.
So that's my trick to myself.
[00:30:49] Whitney Owens: Yeah. That's a good one. And, and honestly, sometimes we get in there and it's a lot easier than we ever thought it was gonna be.
[00:30:54] Julie Herres: Yeah. Maybe you're done in 30 minutes, right? But like I need to know that there's an end in sight.
[00:30:59] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, this has been great. A- as we're kind of like looking to wrap up here- What are you thinking would be some advice for practice owners right now that are listening and they're in 2026 and they're like, "I'm just scared.
I don't know how to invest. What am I supposed to be doing in my practice with my money?"
[00:31:18] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. I would look at all the numbers, right? So what's going on in your practice? How much can you reasonably take home from your practice as it is right now, right? Not as you wish it were, but as it is right now.
Take a hard look. If you are feeling stressed about money, take a hard look at what you are spending at home. A lot of people don't have a personal budget. No judgment, but, like, if things are feeling tight, look at that. It's often more than you think, and sometimes just little tweaks here and there can make a big difference there, right?
Of like s- you might be spending more than, more than you think. I think it's a great idea to go through the list of your expenses. If there's things that you are not using, go ahead and let them go. Specifically, like, I know we, we d- do that exercise once a year. Sometimes there's software, like, that you can combine where, oh, Google does this now, so we don't need this other thing anymore, or Zoom does this now, so we're not gonna pay for this other thing anymore, right?
Like, new features, just kinda spending a little time looking at that and combining things. Good. Um, but then thinking about, like, if I'm cutting this thing that actually does have a return on investment, like, what is, what is going to cost me to not have this, right? What is it going to have cost me to not spend on marketing or, you know, whatever the, the item is.
Just really give some thought to what that is and if it makes, if it makes sense.
[00:32:36] Whitney Owens: That's all really great advice.
[00:32:38] Julie Herres: Yeah.
[00:32:38] Whitney Owens: And, yeah.
[00:32:39] Julie Herres: C- if I can add one more that- Yes ... uh, if you're, like, in, in a difficult financial situation, get professional help as well, right? Mm-hmm. That, and that might look different for every practice.
It might be a coach. It might be an accountant. It might be an attorney. It might be HR. It might be what any, a lot of different things. But get someone who can be in your corner and look at what's going on with you in an impartial way, and help you kind of navigate through that. Because it can be really lonely being a business owner sometimes, where you don't wanna put that burden on your team, but you don't have to be alone in a lot of those hard decisions.
So get some professional help.
[00:33:17] Whitney Owens: I'm so glad you said that. I've seen so many practice owners come out positive in the end after getting help.
[00:33:23] Julie Herres: Absolutely. You
[00:33:24] Whitney Owens: know? And, and they think to themselves, "I don't have the money for this." In fact, um, Sarah referred somebody to me, I don't know, four or five months ago that met- Okay
with her, with GreenOak, you know? And, and the practice owner was struggling, in the negative, "I don't know what to do," and Sarah was like, "Well, here's some advice," and one of them included reaching out to me, which I greatly appreciated. Good. And now we've been working together for four or five months, and she's starting to get in the positive and making- Amazing
changes, changed her model, just hired someone. Like, all these things are happening for her. That's amazing. And she has certainly put in the work. But it's, it's exactly what you said. It's going to the experts, getting the advice, having that team of professionals. Not just one, but here's my accounting professional, here's my consultant, here's my marketing person, and getting yourself out of that hole.
[00:34:11] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. And I would also add to that, don't wait until it's too late, right?
[00:34:15] Whitney Owens: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Julie Herres: Um, get help before you're taking out a second mortgage on your house, or you're making some of these big decisions that are very hard to reverse, right? Like the payday loan of the small business. Like, before you get to that place, get some help.
Don't go through all of that by yourself because sometimes if the hole is too big- Even a professional might not be able to help you get out of it, right? If you're, you are taking on loans with 40% interest, like, those are really hard to dig your way out of. And but a- and if you go to a professional before that, they might be able to help you identify, like, "Hey, maybe you need a smaller team right now."
And that's a hard thing to see as the owner.
[00:34:57] Whitney Owens: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:57] Julie Herres: But someone who's got an outside perspective might see, like, "This does not make financial sense anymore."
[00:35:03] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been great, encouraging, fabulous conversation. And if owners are listening and they wanna hear more about GreenOak or would like some consultation, can you give some direction about that?
[00:35:17] Julie Herres: Yes, absolutely. We are easy to find online at greenoakaccounting.com. We offer a free consultation, so if you're interested in finding out more about our services, it's a very low-pressure way of just, um, uh, getting some information and seeing if it might be a good fit and if we are able to, um, help you, which the answer is usually yes, right?
Yes. Usually, we are, we are able to help. And so I would invite you to go to greenoakaccounting.com and schedule a consultation, uh, with actually Sarah from our team, and chat with her.
[00:35:47] Whitney Owens: Wonderful. Yeah, and the other thing I love about GreenOak, not only are you specialized, but you offer a variety of services.
So I think a lot of people are nervous to do a consult 'cause, "I don't have a lot of money to spend on something." But you have so many different programs to kind of meet people's needs in different phases of growth in their practice, different goals, but also where they are financially to get them to the next level, so I appreciate that.
[00:36:08] Julie Herres: Oh, well, thank you. And also, as, as you alluded to, Whitney, if accounting is not what you need, we will also tell you, right? So if- Mm-hmm ... if you need a coach or if you need billing help, like, we will tell you that. We're not just gonna try to sell you accounting services. If you need something different, we're gonna be super honest about it.
[00:36:24] Whitney Owens: Yeah. Well, Julie, thank you for the partnership over the years. Yes. And I know that y'all will be at the Wise Practice Summit in October.
[00:36:31] Julie Herres: Absolutely.
[00:36:32] Whitney Owens: So there'll be an opportunity for people to stop by the table and ask questions and get assistance, and we really appreciate you.
[00:36:38] Julie Herres: We love partnering with you.
Thanks.
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[00:37:02] Whitney Owens: Special thanks to Marty Altman for the music in this podcast. The Wise Practice Podcast is part of the SiteCraft Podcast Network, a collaboration of independent podcasters focused on helping people live more meaningful and productive lives. To learn more about the other amazing podcasts in the network, head on over to sitecraftnetwork.com.
The Wise Practice Podcast represents the opinions of Whitney Owens and her guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and the content should not be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, please consult an attorney.
